[19:00] <+Eloy-3EG> I’m Eloy Lasanta, owner and operator of Third Eye Games and all around cool dude (or at least that what my moms tells me)
[19:01] <+CarolD> I’m Carol Darnell, I’m a freelance editor and Editing Manager for Third Eye Games.
[19:01] <+Eloy-3EG> You might have heard of me from gamelines such as The Ninja Crusade 2nd Edition, Part-Time Gods and Mermaid Adventures or some of my freelance work on World of Darkness: Dark Eras or perhaps the Firefly RPG
[19:01] <+Eloy-3EG> or maybe even my latest game, Sins of the Father, which I’m here to talk about! 🙂
[19:02] <+Eloy-3EG> And CarolD is awesome!
[19:03] <+Eloy-3EG> I can introduce myself more if you’d like. 🙂
[19:03] <+CarolD> Thank you, Eloy. I’ve also done work for Onyx Path, Hex Games, Epic Quest Publishing and a few others.
[19:03] <~Dan> Why don’t you tell us a bit about the game?
[19:04] <+Eloy-3EG> in Sins of the Father, you play as character called hellborn. In short, your family is bound to a Dark Lord and has been for a long time. So that means that from the moment you were born, your soul doesn’t actually belong to you. The game is about you fulfilling your service to the Dark Lord in order to work off your debt to them (which never really happens)
[19:05] <+Eloy-3EG> It’s pretty dark, has some gruesome elements but also some humor.
[19:05] <+Eloy-3EG> it can be played in a variety of different ways, depending on the mood and theme you’re interested in
[19:06] <+Eloy-3EG> This is also the very first game i’ve designed that uses playing cards as the main mechanic.
[19:06] <&Silverlion> So its kind of like Reaper, only dark? (The TV show)
[19:07] <+Eloy-3EG> Very much so! Actually Reaper is listed as an inspiration for the game pretty straightforwardly.
[19:07] <+XON2000> Can you briefly describe how the card mechanics work?
[19:07] <+Eloy-3EG> Sure!
[19:07] <+xyphoid> is this a RPG?
[19:07] <+Eloy-3EG> So every player has their own deck (the Soul Master has two for their own use).
[19:07] <+CarolD> Yes it is an RPG
[19:08] <+Eloy-3EG> When attempting to do something (like complete a task) you look at your Skill Ranking for the skill in question and that’s how many cards you get to draw. The SM then draws a number of cards equal to the Difficulty. Whoever pulls the higher card wins.
[19:09] <+Eloy-3EG> For example: If I’m the SM and I pull a 10 for the Difficulty, then any J, Q, K or A will bet it. A 10 would tie. and anything else would be a failure. Pulling multiple cards ups your chances of beating the difficulty.
[19:09] <+Eloy-3EG> And, of course, there are ways (abilities) for characters to affect their draws.
[19:10] <+Eloy-3EG> I think my favorite is called Copy Cat, and that’s one where you use the top card of any other discard pile as your drawn card instead of drawing one. lol
[19:11] <+XON2000> Do you shuffle your deck after each task, or can you kind of count cards and try to figure out when you’re more likely to get a higher card?
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[19:11] <~Dan> (Howdy, AmyLa!)
[19:11] <+AmyLa> ty
[19:12] <+Eloy-3EG> You shuffle only at certain times, and usually have to take on Debt to do it. That’s kind of part of the trick to the game. The Dark Lord has sent you on a mission and you may have to become even more in their debt in order to fulfill it.
[19:12] <~Dan> That seems counterproductive… 🙂
[19:12] <+XON2000> Ah, so you can run out of cards? What happens then?
[19:13] <+Eloy-3EG> Card Counting works, but only to a certain extent, since some things can happen to make you randomly (or purposefully) discard cards from the top of your deck. you may end up losing high value cards that way, but usually because you made some other awesome in game effect happen as well.
[19:13] <+Eloy-3EG> when you run out of cards, you’re either out or the Session or you can take on Debt to reshuffle and continue.
[19:14] <~Dan> Do you have a character sheet that we can see?
[19:14] <+CarolD> Getting into Debt to serve the Dark Lord (which could remove some Debt if successful) is illustrative of the bind your parents got you in by committing your soul
[19:14] <+Eloy-3EG> it’s a crazy mechanic because you can feel the Debt creeping further in a crash way.
[19:15] <+Eloy-3EG> Sins of the Father Character Sheet (Link: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/847610/SotFSheetV2.pdf)https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/847610/SotFSheetV2.pdf
[19:16] <+XON2000> Are the players meant to have some hope of being able to free themselves ultimately, or is it futile?
[19:16] <~Dan> Let’s see here…
[19:17] <~Dan> So first off, I don’t see attributes. I gather that the game is 100% skill-based?
[19:17] <+CarolD> There are legends of those escaping 🙂
[19:17] <+Eloy-3EG> Freeing oneself is touched upon in the book, and is seen as a rare and very difficult thing to do. Most consider it Futile, because it requires being selfless and being all good. The problem with that is that almost all characters are born into one sin or another and they’ve been brought up in and they live and breathe it.
[19:18] <+Eloy-3EG> You kind of play terrible people or good people with terrible upbringings and habits.
[19:18] <&Doctor> Okay so, that seems like a good place to launch into the big three questions.
[19:18] <+Eloy-3EG> No, no Attributes
[19:18] <+Eloy-3EG> 🙂
[19:18] <+Eloy-3EG> ok, shoot!
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[19:19] <~Dan> Welcome to #rpgnet, darkestarx!
[19:20] <&Doctor> What, in the big picture sense, is the game _about_? Not the setting or the details but the big picture, one word answer. The key theme, mood, or concept that says “this is a game about X” in a handful of words or less.
[19:20] <+Eloy-3EG> is this big three questions thing new? I don’t remember them from previous Q&As! I can’t wait!
[19:20] <&Doctor> (btw I march everyone through these, so don’t feel picked on)
[19:21] <~Dan> Eloy-3EG: This is something of Doctor’s devising. I wash my hands of it. 😉
[19:21] <+Eloy-3EG> One word, answer? Wow that is difficulty. “Debt” would be my answer to that. It’s kind of key to the game, and I’ve mentioned it already a bunch of times.
[19:21] <+CarolD> In my opinion, it’s a way to explore what makes a person good or evil.
[19:22] <+KevinLE> just like life in general… 😦
[19:22] <+Eloy-3EG> ONE WORD, CAROLD!
[19:22] <+Eloy-3EG> 😛
[19:22] <+CarolD> He said “handful of words” 😛
[19:22] <+XON2000> (I gotta run, but the game sounds really interesting. I’ve purchased it from DriveThru, and am looking forward to reading it!)
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[19:22] <~Dan> Well, there you go! You’ve already made a sale. 🙂
[19:22] <+Eloy-3EG> have a great one XON2000!
[19:22] <+Eloy-3EG> woot! I do like selling things
[19:22] <+CarolD> Have a good night, XON2000, and thank you
[19:23] <&Doctor> Okay, which leads me to: how is your game about Debt? And if Escaping debt is futile, what is the real endgame
[19:23] <&Doctor> Or, for Carol, how is it about moral choice?
[19:24] <+Eloy-3EG> The end game is about passing that debt on. It is set up for generation play, so the idea that you’ve inherited that debt is not just talk. You can, in game, make up the children and the children’s children of your character to see how each handles their debt in a different way.
[19:25] <+CarolD> Well, you’re born into a circumstance that is not of your making. Your parents raise you in such a way that you lean towards a particular sort of sin. (Primary Sin in the game). The card mechanics used for character creation also lend to illustrate the lack of choices your characters have. The game is about exploring the choices your characters *can* make.
[19:26] <+darkestarx> while i was reading it i got the idea the being able to find redeption was a fausting false flag that u never can be free or is there a way to be redemed from the syn
[19:26] <+CarolD> And by lack of choices – I don’t mean that the players can’t decide things about their characters – but there are certain aspects that are governed by the cards. Usually more than one, and the player has some choice between them.
[19:26] <+Will> Would it be fair to say that, whether or not the goal is achievable, the game is about the struggle?
[19:27] <+CarolD> The generational play makes it so that players in an ongoing campaign can have their choices matter in so many ways for subsequent characters.
[19:27] <~Dan> Does passing on the debt to one’s offspring prevent the debt from being collected?
[19:28] <+Eloy-3EG> darkestarx: it is a false flag for a multiple of reason. Not because it can “never” happen, but mostly because your typical hellborn aren’t equipped for the level of “good” required to do it, for the most part. They’re too busy fulfilling the wishes of the Dark Lord so they can return to their normal life.
[19:28] <+Eloy-3EG> the game is about the struggle… that’s a good way to think about it.
[19:28] <+Eloy-3EG> and if you can’t do it, then maybe your kids can.
[19:29] <&Doctor> So you’ve touched on part of it, but the last question is how does the game reward players who act in accordance with the core concept and/or encourage the players to grapple with the core concept. This can be as ‘nuts and bolts’ as you’d like
[19:31] <+Eloy-3EG> Dan: depends on the story being told, and how much the parents enjoy their servitude to the Dark Lord.
[19:34] <~Dan> How many Dark Lords are there? And are they all the same sort of being?
[19:34] <+CarolD> Doctor, the reason some get into Debt in the first place is because their Primary Sin drives them to *want* things – like Greed encourages someone to want something – even if you have enough. Part of the game is balancing that normal life with the supernatural obligations you have. Like Eloy said, the parents may enjoy the fruits of their servitude, and in
[19:34] <~Dan> (cut off at “and in”)
[19:34] <+CarolD> some instances – their Sin is such that they enjoy the actions the Dark Lord requires. If they’re violent for example. (done)
[19:34] <+darkestarx> one of my players in the part time gods game asked me if they truelly are from hell or is it posable for the dark lords to be angels fallen angels one of the children of lilith instead of one of the bastions of hell or stygia if u want to go even darker deep hell
[19:34] <+Eloy-3EG> To answer the third question… the players are rewarded with an awesome story, often them needing to decide what kind of person their character wants to be. Others may be rewarded by becoming high-priests and whatnot of their Dark Lord. They may be rewarded by ending the world when he story is done. Depends on the goals of the Dark Lord in question
[19:35] <&Doctor> Eloy-3EG: I was interested in the mechanics and how they reflect the themes
[19:36] <+Eloy-3EG> To cover both the Dark Lord Questions in one answer: The Dark Lord is one of those random elements we talked about earlier. Since you’re born into your servitude, you don’t get to “choose” what Dark Lord your serve. There are a few Dark Lords given as examples, like a Vampire, a demon, an alien or a mad scientist, and each of them want different things.
[19:36] <+Eloy-3EG> ups the replayability of a game like this.
[19:37] <+Will> Ah, so that broadens the effective genre?
[19:37] <+Eloy-3EG> Doctor: Ah mechanically, players can work off debt and then gain more in the form of raised abilities or things called Sinful Gifts that give them pseudo-magical powers based on their Primary Sin.
[19:37] <+Eloy-3EG> Will: exactly. there’s no ONE WAY to play Sins of the Father
[19:37] <~Dan> So the soul isn’t always what’s at stake?
[19:38] <+Eloy-3EG> so, yes, in your game, it may be a fallen angel you serve, or it may be a slug monster in mine. and your fallen angel may ultimately want very different things than my slug god.
[19:39] <+Eloy-3EG> depends on the characters’ viewpoint. Some like what they do, so they don’t see it as a struggle of their soul. They revel in their sin and gladly do what the dark lord asks. So, it’s all about perspective.
[19:39] <~Dan> Well, I mean, if you’re indebted to an alien, I wouldn’t think that the alien would literally get your soul.
[19:40] <+Eloy-3EG> right.
[19:40] <+Eloy-3EG> the “your soul is mine” aspect is to make it universally understood the level of belonging the character has so their Dark Lord, but yes… it could be that an alien has control over your gene pool instead. lol
[19:40] <+darkestarx> what happens to a chacter that fully inbraces there dark side and the host of evils they serve
[19:41] <~Dan> Now, based upon what you’ve said, I take it that there is no unified setting to the game?
[19:41] <+Eloy-3EG> darkestarx… getting to too much Debt means you fully belong to the Dark Lord and are no longer a person, in essence. Time to play your child to see how they do. lol
[19:42] <+Eloy-3EG> no unified setting, correct
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[19:43] <+Eloy-3EG> what the book does is talk about what it’s like to be a hellborn in general, without specific talks about the Dark Lord. it talks about the experience, but the circumstances may be completely different from game to game
[19:43] <~Dan> So it follows that there’s no standard amount of “weirdness” in the setting beyond the Dark Lord(s) themselves?
[19:44] <~Dan> Put another way, is the game set in the modern “real world”, but with Dark Lords, by default?
[19:44] <~Dan> Or could you see playing this in, say, a fantasy setting?
[19:44] <+CarolD> Hence the range of tones of the game – the dark side of exploring some of the sins they have – as well as the more perverse side of balancing work/friends/family with an errand for your Dark Lord – which may require more than the a trip to the mall
[19:44] <+Eloy-3EG> most of the Soul Master tips are about how to run the game and keep the themes intact to deliver the right themes and whatnot. But no, there’s not set level of weirdness. it’s assumed there should be some regardless of the game though, since the character do have access to some really interesting powers.
[19:44] <+CarolD> Although – I’d argue being forced to go to a mall could be construed as a hellish task.
[19:45] <~Dan> Heh. 🙂
[19:45] <+Eloy-3EG> Why couldn’t the Dark Lord be a Lich King? lol
[19:45] <~Dan> And the hellborn could be a real son of a lich.
[19:45] <+CarolD> 🙂
[19:46] <+Eloy-3EG> it was built to be pretty flexible in its approach to the build. cause the backdrop of time/place/genre is really secondary to the character themselves and their journey
[19:46] * ~Dan nods
[19:46] <+Will> (amusingly I’m also watching latest episode of Preacher,k which seems… appropos)
[19:46] <~Dan> You mentioned the powers — can you say a bit about them?
[19:46] <~Dan> (Will: 😀 )
[19:46] <+Eloy-3EG> There are 3 Sinful Gifts per Primary Sin.
[19:46] <+CarolD> No spoilers Will, I’m behind!
[19:46] <+Will> None none none
[19:47] <+Eloy-3EG> two thematic and one deck manipulation
[19:47] <+Eloy-3EG> but yes, Preacher is a good example as well. 🙂
[19:48] <+Eloy-3EG> for instance, Pride has a Sinful Gift called Better than You, which allows you to challenge someone and pull more cards than them. If you win, you’ve shown them up and totally take them out of the Conflict. You win, that’s it.
[19:48] <+Eloy-3EG> Argument? Nope, I win. Fight, Nope I win. But you always win at a cost.
[19:49] <+CarolD> There’s one under Lust that is Instant Attraction – you can discard cards to make them fall in love with you enough to do one task (with some limitations)
[19:49] <+Eloy-3EG> their deck manipulation Gift is called Face to Face, which allows them to draw until they reach a Face card or an Ace. Again, ensuring they pull a high card for the challenge, but who knows how deep that card is and how many cards they have to get rid of in order to ultimately win
[19:50] <~Dan> So I take it that none of the powers are particularly flashy?
[19:50] <+Eloy-3EG> you mean, fireballs?
[19:51] <~Dan> Yeah, that sort of thing.
[19:52] <+Eloy-3EG> it wasn’t built into the core of the game. Most of the Gifts are subtle things that reflect one’s inner Sin and affecting the morals of others around them.
[19:52] <+Eloy-3EG> we plan on including more flashy things in the first expansion (which will be in the works after we put GenCon behind us)
[19:53] <+CarolD> I think as flashy as it gets right now is healing wounds with food.
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[19:53] <+Eloy-3EG> however, it’s SUPER easy to add things like that into the game. the system is simple and the way Sinful gifts work is pretty straightforward
[19:54] <+Eloy-3EG> (done)
[19:54] <~Dan> What can the Occult skill accomplish? By default, are there powers at work beyond Sinful Gifts?
[19:55] <+Eloy-3EG> yes… it’s kind of the default skill for manipulating a lot of the Sinful Gifts.
[19:55] <+Eloy-3EG> but you can also identify magic items, recall facts of a magical or demonic nature, etc.
[19:55] <+Eloy-3EG> knowing about legends, myths, etc. are also covered there
[19:56] * ~Dan nods
[19:56] <+CarolD> Knowledge of rituals as well
[19:56] <~Dan> Rituals, you say?
[19:57] <~Dan> What effects can those have?
[19:58] <+CarolD> Always a possibility – and there aren’t any specifically defined right now – that could change. It could be where the Dark Lord gives you and/or your cult instructions as to what they want now.
[19:59] <~Dan> Going back to the Occult skill for a moment, would that be used for “weird science” knowledge and the like in a sci-fi setting?
[19:59] <+Eloy-3EG> rituals are defined right now as magical acts that the characters can do together to great effect. that is one of those “pretty much anything” effects, as long as it falls within the theme of the story and the Dark Lord.
[20:00] <+Eloy-3EG> yes, in a Sci-Fi setting, it’d be used for that.
[20:00] <+CarolD> I can see that
[20:00] <+Eloy-3EG> it makes sense
[20:01] <~Dan> Now, you mentioned that hellborn can earn their freedom by doing good?
[20:01] <+Eloy-3EG> The next big thing about the game is the Relationships (reflected by how much space on the character sheet they take up)
[20:01] <~Dan> Oh, sorry — go ahead!
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[20:03] <+CarolD> To briefly touch on the earning freedom (before getting into Relationships) there are a couple of legends outlined in the book, but to be that selfless – not to be punny, but the deck is pretty much stacked against them 🙂
[20:03] <~Dan> I’ll come back to that in a bit, if I may. Go ahead and tell us about Relationships, Eloy-3EG.
[20:04] <+CarolD> Relationships are defined by the players – there are people with whom they have significant – if not friendly – relationships. The difference is that two of them are with other player-characters. One with the player on your left, the other on your right.
[20:04] <+CarolD> Eloy had to go afk for a minute. He will chime in as soon as he gets back.
[20:05] <+Eloy-3EG> i’m back now!
[20:05] <+CarolD> Cards are drawn, each card being a different type of relationship – things like Rivals, Exes, Friend of a Friend, etc.
[20:06] <+Eloy-3EG> And the suit determines what kind of relationship you have with that character, Controlling, Devious, Hostile or Intimate
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[20:06] <~Dan> (Howdy, SirGene!)
[20:06] <~Dan> ( SirGene: topic: (Link: http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/188530/Sins-of-the-Father?hot60=0&src=hottest_filtered&filters=100_0_0_0_0)http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/188530/Sins-of-the-Father?hot60=0&src=hottest_filtered&filters=100_0_0_0_0 )
[20:06] <+Eloy-3EG> with randomly drawn cards, it makes some amazing stories just from figuring out how the players’ character know each other and who all is in their life
[20:06] <~Dan> I can see that.
[20:07] <+darkestarx> what draws charchters to actually work together and to atleast let the others know there unique like them
[20:07] <+CarolD> The general conceit is that they’re working for the same Dark Lord
[20:08] <+Will> Do they ever meet folks of a different Lord? Lord rivalries?
[20:09] <+Eloy-3EG> here is an example hellborn character: (Link: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/847610/SotF-Character.pdf)https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/847610/SotF-Character.pdf
[20:09] <+SirGene> High Dan trying to get up to speed on Kickstarter.
[20:10] <+Eloy-3EG> oh yeah, rival hellborn are some of the biggest antagonists. either they are trying to stop you or possibly do what you are trying to do first
[20:10] <+CarolD> There certainly could be different Dark Lords after the same thing – and their servants have to fight to see who gets it.
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[20:10] <+Eloy-3EG> but again, the game is prominently centered on the players’ characters, so meeting another dark lord and it’s followers is as important to the game as it is to the story to have that in it.
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[20:11] <~Dan> (Howdy, MonkofLords!)
[20:12] <+Eloy-3EG> I used Sofia above as an example to show you what your typical character looks like. They have a Primary Sin (her’s is Avarice) and it’s all about her wanting more and more, like someone with that sin does.
[20:13] <+Eloy-3EG> She also has one of the flashier Sinful gifts called Duplication, that lets her make a copy of an item for the Scene.
[20:13] <~Dan> It seems that the game is pretty metaphysical by default. I’m having a hard time picturing how it would work for non-supernatural Dark Lords. Earning freedom by doing good, for example.
[20:14] <+darkestarx> can a darkloard poach a hellborn from anuther darklord
[20:15] <+CarolD> Yes, darkestarx, in fact, Dark Lords can trade servants
[20:15] <+Eloy-3EG> I think that’s the thing… the game isn’t about freeing yourself. It just isn’t. It could be about your trying to free yourself, but if you free yourself then the game is over, so if you are going to do that it should be a world changing event.
[20:16] <+Eloy-3EG> but yeah, the example for freeing yourself are metaphysically based, but it could be changed pretty easily I’d think. “Doing good” in this game is “fighting against your Primary Sin or your programming”
[20:16] * ~Dan nods
[20:16] <+darkestarx> im not saying trade im talking out right steal another darklords lil play hellborn
[20:16] <+Eloy-3EG> there’s a section in the book that does cover how one day a hellborn may wake up and think they’ve done all they need to do just to find out they have a new dark lord.
[20:17] <+Will> It occurs to me that there are some interesting transhuman directions this can go
[20:17] <+Eloy-3EG> darkestarx: if you wanted to change it from contracts then you can, but the idea is that the dark lord owns you. need to have something to back that up in court. lol
[20:17] <+Will> ‘you are all variant lesser copies of the Prime’
[20:17] <+Eloy-3EG> oh, that’s a cool idea.
[20:17] <+Eloy-3EG> CarolD… make note of that one
[20:17] * +Will grins
[20:18] * +Will has been called walking idea font
[20:18] <+CarolD> With a Mad Scientist Dark Lord, that could definitely be done. So noted boss 😉
[20:18] <+Eloy-3EG> so, just to finish off the character sheet, I feel like I should address Attachments.
[20:19] <~Dan> Oh, yes, I was going to ask about those.
[20:19] <+Eloy-3EG> these are essentially your things that tie you to your dark lord, the level of Chaos, Influence, Darkness and Passion you have.
[20:19] <+Eloy-3EG> mechanically, these act as raises to your cards drawn. A raise ups the value of the card in hand. So, Passion is Hearts, for instance. If you have Passion 2 and draw a 3 of Hearts, it’s actually a 5 now
[20:20] <+Eloy-3EG> they are, again, another way your deck is affected. You gain your initial Attachments by drawing for Traits, which are personality quirks to your character. but you can buy more by taking on more Debt.
[20:21] <+Eloy-3EG> if you look at Sofia, she is Tactless and Individualistic, which got her Chaos 1 and Influence 1, but she took on another debt to raise her Chaos to 2. So anytime she draws a diamond or club, she’ll get a riase
[20:21] <+Eloy-3EG> raise
[20:22] <+darkestarx> though question on the intire scifi transhumanity if you made a copy of your self weather it was by transending to being an ai. or just coping the memories and using a cyber form for a physical body or more sinister like cloning or out right replication would the clones be able to have a dark lord dif then the original as will said prime host or is the soul l
[20:23] <+CarolD> Did some of the question get cut off?
[20:24] <~Dan> What does a raise mean in this context?
[20:24] <+Eloy-3EG> the idea is that all the characters share a dark lord. unless the SM wants to split the group into competing or possibly allying groups of hellborn. The thing about the random Dark Lord creation is that… not all their goals or methods will align, which might put everyone at odds.
[20:24] <+darkestarx> so thats how atachments work i thought u lowered the target number so if u had a 2 in pasion and got a 4 of hearts it now was a 2. so its actually the other way. thanks for explaning
[20:25] <+Eloy-3EG> Oh, I thought I said. Raise = bonus to the card, upping it’s value. The opposite of that would be a Drop, which lowers the value of a card
[20:25] <+Eloy-3EG> totally the other way around… otherwise, it’s not a boon for you to have attachments.
[20:25] <+CarolD> I could see it being played as if the prime held the soul, conflict could arise if someone – maybe another Dark Lord – seeks to steal it. Or perhaps some other DL could try to seduce them away – there could be a game set around that.
[20:26] <+darkestarx> i was asking redux of the question going transhumanity road if u cloned the soul would the clones now share the original sin or would the syn and oath of the sin only be tied to the prime soul
[20:27] <~Dan> Do you deal at all with the forces opposing the Dark Lords (and thus the hellborn)? Are there supernatural good guys out there?
[20:27] <+Eloy-3EG> ah. id’ say it’d depend on what the players wanted to do. I’d do a multiple man kind of thing, and have each one be an aspect of the Prime’s personality, thus justifying them having different primary sins. but you could also just have a group with all the same sin… unless they are all Sloth. then nothing gets done
[20:27] <+darkestarx> very well said.
[20:28] <+Eloy-3EG> other characters are mentioned and there are tips for putting more supernatural things into the story as well.
[20:29] <+CarolD> No specific write-ups for Sam or Dean though 🙂
[20:29] <~Dan> 🙂
[20:29] <+Eloy-3EG> if your where is “are there stat writeups for antagonists” the answer’s no. It’s all cards drawn, and the SM should be able to access how strong an enemy is on a scale of 1-3 pretty easily. lol
[20:29] <+darkestarx> ya i was wondering if there was other types of servants of other types of powers out there like nephlihm or feykin or weirder out there
[20:30] <+Will> I would imagine you could have all Dark Lords the same ‘type’ or mix it up weirdly.
[20:30] <+darkestarx> well would not sam and dean and all hunters be hellborn that just not know there damed
[20:30] <~Dan> How does combat work?
[20:31] <+Eloy-3EG> during playtesting, I got a question from one of the players saying “what if there are angels in the world that I can make a second contract with to try to save my soul” and my answer was that, instituting some sort of “angel policy” assumes you’re playing a demon setting, which you aren’t always. you kind of have to work with the setting and story to justify
[20:32] <+CarolD> darkestarx, Could be that they belong to the angels – it’s not like most of the angels in that world aren’t demanding supernatural critters 🙂
[20:32] <+Eloy-3EG> if i was to play Supernatural with Sins of the Father, not that I would, I’d make their dad their Dark Lord, since Sam and Dean are constantly trying to get his approval. lol
[20:32] <+darkestarx> but in myth angels can be far more devius and crual taskmasters then the hellish servents of the dark or the fell beasts of lilth
[20:33] <+Eloy-3EG> which just goes to show you why there is no angel policy lol
[20:34] <+Eloy-3EG> if the question is whether you can play as nephilim and whatnot, you certainly can. The game is setup with regular people in mind, but you could change it up by adding a few new Sinful Gifts pretty easily, methinks
[20:34] <+CarolD> Combat – mechanically it would be a relevant skill + card drawn
[20:35] <+Eloy-3EG> oh yeah… forgot about that questions. lol
[20:36] <~Dan> Is it just a flat win/lose thing?
[20:36] <+Eloy-3EG> yeah, so what’s the relevant skill for the task and what’s your Ranking. If it’s 3, you can pull up to 3 cards to attempt it. you don’t have to, but if the first card fails, you can pull another and so on. Combat if just two character drawing against each other until someone has the higher card
[20:36] <+Eloy-3EG> depends on the Skill in question.
[20:36] <+darkestarx> true enough though cinima verse buffy and the slayers be a good example of a dark lord being to much poride of there work and getting the short end of the faustian deal
[20:36] <+Eloy-3EG> you see the Wounds on the character sheet listed next to Skills? you can take a number of Wounds to that skill up your level before being taken out.
[20:37] <+Eloy-3EG> for instance, If you have Fighting 2 and you lose, you’ve only taken 1 Wound so you could keep fighting if you want.
[20:37] <+darkestarx> so if u take wounds or skill fatigue how u get it back
[20:38] <+Eloy-3EG> If you are in an argument and only have Convince 1 and you fail, then if you take a Wound you are taken out of the conversation, you lose
[20:38] <+Eloy-3EG> you can heal it naturally between scenes or you can… let’s say it together… TAKE ON DEBT! 🙂
[20:38] <~Dan> 🙂
[20:39] <+darkestarx> what about physical or mental actual damage notskill fatigue
[20:39] <+Eloy-3EG> if you don’t want debt every time you get beat, you can also do a Bounce Back which requires discarding a bunch of cards.
[20:39] <+CarolD> There are a few Gifts that allow for some healing, specifically those related to Gluttony or Lust
[20:39] <+Eloy-3EG> the entire system is “skill fatigue” as you’re calling it.
[20:40] <+darkestarx> ok so then there is no perma death then
[20:40] <+Eloy-3EG> Getting “Taken Out” doesn’t necessarily mean you’re dead, unless the source is something that would outright kill you.
[20:40] <~Dan> I gather that you don’t bother with weapons, armor, etc.?
[20:41] <+Eloy-3EG> like, if someone shoot at you and you take all the Wounds you can in your defending Skill, you and the SM may decide that’s a fatal wound and you’re dead.
[20:41] <+Eloy-3EG> not really, no.
[20:42] <+Eloy-3EG> if the Soul Master wanted, they could give bonuses or raises for having proper equipment, but it’s honestly not even something that came up during playtesting. seemed extraneous
[20:42] <+Eloy-3EG> (done)
[20:43] <~Dan> How dark do you get with the game? What’s the worst thing you’ve had a Dark Lord demand?
[20:43] <+Eloy-3EG> got about 15 minutes 🙂
[20:43] <+Eloy-3EG> in my games, the worst thing I asked was for the character to retrieve a chosen child from the newborn wing of the local hospital for a ritual sacrifice.
[20:44] <~Dan> Sheesh.
[20:44] <+Eloy-3EG> not only did they stumble through the obstacles, but when it came down to actually killing the kid, they didn’t all agree on what they were doing.
[20:44] <&Doctor> I call that pretty hardcore
[20:44] <+Eloy-3EG> it was pretty epic.
[20:44] <+Eloy-3EG> and really spoke to the essence of the game.
[20:45] <~Dan> Speaking of which, what happens system-wise if you refuse to do what the Dark Lord asks?
[20:45] <+Eloy-3EG> I think you know the answer. 🙂
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[20:45] <~Dan> (Welcome, Guest!)
[20:46] <+Eloy-3EG> You take on more Debt.
[20:46] <+Eloy-3EG> it’s kind of a universal theme within the game
[20:46] <+CarolD> System-wise, there isn’t a point where your Gifts don’t work, but yes, more Debt, and the Dark Lord may put obstacles in your life so you’ll have no choice but to turn to them.
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[20:47] <~Dan> Yeah, that’s more what I was thinking. What if a hellborn just says “Screw the Debt”?
[20:47] <+Eloy-3EG> oh yeah… Dark Lords don’t like being disobeyed. they will make your life a living hell, which then feed into the relationships portion of the game.
[20:47] <~Dan> (You there, Guest?)
[20:47] <+CarolD> You could also be asked to do something that on the surface is positive. Protecting a property of the Dark Lord’s – say – a brothel.
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[20:48] <+Eloy-3EG> oh, then your entire bloodline, everyone who came before and anyone who may come after, are extinguished
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[20:48] <+darkestarx> so the story about the breaking free of the darklord by not doing is comanded is a false flag then
[20:48] <+Viktyr> Eloy-3EG: Well, if *that’s* all…
[20:48] <~Dan> Welcome to #rpgnet, Dwayne!
[20:48] <+CarolD> However, before that – If you’re all playing those who serve the Dark Lord, your compatriots could be asked to coerce you back to the fold – which as Eloy said – feeds into the relationships and character development.
[20:49] <+Dwayne> Thanks
[20:49] <+Eloy-3EG> darkestar: yes and no, as we’ve discussed several times in this thread already.
[20:49] <+darkestarx> ok cool cool
[20:49] <+CarolD> No, the breaking free examples actually involve wiping out the Debt. If you got to 0 Debt and said “Screw Debt” you would not have your family wiped out, but the DL would do all they could to keep you from getting to 0.
[20:49] <~Dan> In the time remaining, is there anything we haven’t covered that you’d like to bring up?
[20:50] <+Eloy-3EG> Not really… we covered a lot about Sins of the Father, but there’s still so much more in the game to discover. It’s one of my favorite creations to date.
[20:50] <+CarolD> The problems of being good and pure enough to even get that far, on top of all the obstacles, makes it highly difficult, but I wouldn’t call it a false flag.
[20:50] <+darkestarx> how would u pitch giving the game a chance to people that never played a rpg before
[20:51] <+Eloy-3EG> Though not directly related, I should also remind people that Third Eye Games has a Kickstarter going on. Go support it! (Link: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/eloylasanta/empires-reign-and-other-ninja-crusade-2e-expansion)https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/eloylasanta/empires-reign-and-other-ninja-crusade-2e-expansion
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[20:52] <+Eloy-3EG> If they’ve seen Reaper, lead with that and even run it as a humor-filled fest before saying “ok, for your kids… they’re going to have a much hard time and more gruesome demands up on them”
[20:52] <+Will> I suppose, Carol, it wouldn’t be a Preacher spoiler to mention that AMC’s nitpicky proprietary video player makes me want to hurt things.
[20:52] <+CarolD> Who have never played before? Well, the card mechanic could be more familiar than dice, and for those who are worried about having to figure out a full-blown character from wholecloth, it could ease their minds.
[20:52] <+CarolD> Heh – Will – not at all 🙂
[20:53] <~Dan> Oh, as a quick reminder to folks, my tip jar is here, if anyone is so inclined. 🙂 (Link: https://gmshoe.wordpress.com/the-gmshoes-tip-jar/)https://gmshoe.wordpress.com/the-gmshoes-tip-jar/
[20:53] <+Eloy-3EG> Also, there are premade Dark Lords and hellborn in the book so you could hand out characters, pick a dark lord and jump right in without feeling the need to explain every little thing about the game
[20:53] <+Will> I’m positively reminded of Nobilis. Though this seems a little more playable
[20:54] <+Eloy-3EG> I think my favorite is Mooky, who is like the best good guy you’re going to get out of this game. lol
[20:54] <+Eloy-3EG> I think it could be like Nobilis if you played the Dark Lord… that may be an interesting spin on the game for a future expansion. hmmmm
[20:55] <+CarolD> Noted 🙂
[20:55] <~Dan> 🙂
[20:55] <+darkestarx> he came across is being the inverse source of good omens
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[20:56] <+Eloy-3EG> I could see tht
[20:56] <+Eloy-3EG> that
[20:56] <~Dan> Oh, quick aside: I’m hoping to have an #rpgnet get-together at Scotty’s Brewhouse at around 4:00 next Wednesday, if you’re available, Eloy-3EG and CarolD. 🙂
[20:57] <+darkestarx> ya a sins of the father imortals of imortality type where your playing the dark lords would be intresting i could see my part time gods group playing that in the part time gods game against there sins of the father chacters
[20:57] <+CarolD> Cool 🙂
[20:57] <+CarolD> All the years I’ve been to GenCon, Dan, and I’ve never actually been to Scotty’s…
[20:57] <+Eloy-3EG> I’ll see if I can make it
[20:57] <+CarolD> Crossover!
[20:57] <~Dan> Excellent. 🙂
[20:58] <+Eloy-3EG> indeed
[20:58] <~Dan> Thanks very much for joining us, guys!
[20:58] <+Eloy-3EG> okay, everyone! it’s been real! Dan, you’re the best! Thanks everybody!
[20:58] <~Dan> No need to run off, by the way — I’m just going to log the chat and get you the link.
[20:58] <+CarolD> Thank you for hosting
[20:58] <~Dan> Certainly!
[20:58] <+Eloy-3EG> please do, but I have a baby calling. 🙂
[20:58] <~Dan> Okay, I’ll hurry! 🙂