[19:04] <+DaneAsmund> So I’m Dane Asmund, the lead/only person in Cosmic Mirror Games (Ha!) I have been working on a number of RPG games from homebrews to full blown systems for a few years, but Im finally getting to the end here on my first finished book, Umbra & Mirn, which has the Kickstarter still going here: (Link: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cosmicmirrorgames/umbra-and-mi)https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cosmicmirrorgames/umbra-and-mi
[19:04] <+DaneAsmund> *(Link: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cosmicmirrorgames/umbra-and-mirn-cosmic-mirror-rpg*)https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cosmicmirrorgames/umbra-and-mirn-cosmic-mirror-rpg*
[19:04] <+DaneAsmund> Umbra & Mirn is a game system and setting set on the Cosmic Mirror, a flat and rectangular ancient artifact. On one side of the vast Cosmic Mirror is Umbra, a shadowy and ephemeral world where you will play an Umbran, a six armed centaur-like race, in a dark fantasy setting.
[19:04] <&Doctor> (still 404)
[19:05] <+DaneAsmund> On the other side of the mirror is Mirn, a glass and metal world where you will play as a Mirrar, a snake-fungus creature with six tentacles, in a tech-fantasy setting.
[19:05] <+DaneAsmund> (odd! That is the link)
[19:05] <+DaneAsmund> (Link: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cosmicmirrorgames/umbra-and-mirn-cosmic-mirror-rpg)https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cosmicmirrorgames/umbra-and-mirn-cosmic-mirror-rpg
[19:05] <+DaneAsmund> Your two characters share a soul, tied together by an invisible soul tether that passes through the mirror itself. You will play one side of the mirror at a time. As the green sun sets, it puts into stasis the world it leaves, and awakens the world it rises in.
[19:05] <+DaneAsmund> The world that is put into stasis sees its inhabitants enter a dream-like state, and it is during this period that your character will be able to pass on their abilities, their knowledge, their memories, or even their dream logic to your waking character through a system called Bleed.
[19:06] <&Doctor> (that one worked, looked like the second one included the * )
[19:06] <+DaneAsmund> So the real interesting and unique portion of the game is being able to play these two characters in two worlds alternatingly, allowing your group to play two characters/parties and two campaigns, as interconnected or separate as you want
[19:06] <+DaneAsmund> (done)
[19:07] <+DaneAsmund> (I see that now, feeling rather silly haha. Thanks Doctor)
[19:07] <~Dan> Thanks, DaneAsmund!
[19:07] <~Dan> The floor is open to questions!
[19:08] <~Dan> Let’s see, where to begin… 🙂
[19:08] <&Doctor> Okay, so I think I see the “unique selling point” but I’d like to drill down a little. How is the tether between the two characters expressed both mechanically and thematically?
[19:08] <~Dan> What led you to create such an unusual setting for your first publishing effort?
[19:08] <&Doctor> *dives right in*
[19:08] <+DaneAsmund> Sure! Doctor first here
[19:09] <+DaneAsmund> The Bleed system factors into the game in a lot of ways with the soul tether. Mechanically, the game sees a system that lets you pass memories, specialties, attributes, or even dream powers (using your dream logic) to the waking character while you are dreaming
[19:09] <+DaneAsmund> It has some big ramifications for the world as well, if one of your characters dies, your character becomes unbound, meaning that they are active in whatever world is active, taking the place of your now dead character
[19:10] <+DaneAsmund> So they are transported to the other world when the sun is there, having to now find time to sleep, which they had never done before
[19:10] <+DaneAsmund> Flavor wise, the memories can be passed back and forth as well, so you can inform your other character of what you might be needing soon, so they can send relevant abilities when they send their “gifts”
[19:11] <+DaneAsmund> Dan it’s actually the youngest setting I have been working on. I began with my epic fantasy world Solare, but the book is at 400 pages and is seeing no end in sight, so I dumbed down the system and tried a simpler setting, and ended up with another system Mortalis, which is the next one to be done.
[19:11] <+DaneAsmund> I finally dumbed it down again to make a simpler system, less daunting, and ended up here
[19:11] <+DaneAsmund> The unique part/gimmick to it really sold it for me
[19:12] <+DaneAsmund> So the answer? It seemed like the easiest one to complete a core book for! Haha
[19:12] <&Doctor> So it’s much closer to “two incarnations or iterations of the same character” than two distinct characters linked by a mystic thread… or am I reading it wrong?
[19:12] <~Dan> Do you have any concern about players being able to relate to such exotic PCs?
[19:13] <+DaneAsmund> Doctor The characters are completely unique. They only know of eachother from the bits of memories they have been gifted over the years. The Bleed system prevents your characters from sending too much each day, so your characters are more like distant friends who have never actually met, who can send gifts to one another in the form of small memories, etc
[19:14] <+DaneAsmund> Dan I had initial worries myself on that. I have only ever played humanoid races, and these are still recognizably humanoid, but monstrous in some ways
[19:14] <+DaneAsmund> This is definitely a big step for even me for roleplaying, I think there will be a potential for an initial barrier
[19:14] <+DaneAsmund> But the clothes, the items, it still feels recognizably fantasy roleplaying in many ways, so I think it will still feel familiar in many cases
[19:15] <&Doctor> Hm, so it’s not a “single controlling will”
[19:16] <+DaneAsmund> Nope, they are two unique beings! : )
[19:16] <+DaneAsmund> Some characters have such weak Soul scores they have a hard time sharing anything with their “other”, the one they share a soul with
[19:16] <+DaneAsmund> So some of these characters actually know very little about one another, even though they share a soul
[19:17] <+DaneAsmund> I made it a point that the soul tethers want to be stretched the least possible
[19:17] <&Doctor> How do you reconcile aiding one another without common goals?
[19:17] <+DaneAsmund> So it’s very feasible that your parties in each world are tied to one another
[19:18] <+DaneAsmund> Doctor Well losing your soul-tethered “other” is a bad deal. You start popping up in both worlds, which can be a big issue to pop up in a world where you have no ties, no money, no support structures
[19:18] <+DaneAsmund> So it’s in your best interest in many cases to help one another, as it costs you nothing
[19:18] <+DaneAsmund> However, there are suggestions in the book for playing groups who hate their “others”
[19:18] <+DaneAsmund> Playing a good party whose “others” are all evil comes to mind
[19:18] <+DaneAsmund> Could make for some really fun role-play and campaigns
[19:19] <~Dan> If you pop into either world, do you retain your original species, or do you change to the species native to that side of the mirror?
[19:20] <+DaneAsmund> And more over, there are times that you do have the same goals. If the enemy in the game is an unbound creature, they are messing up both worlds, and your parties in both worlds might be hunting them down
[19:20] <+DaneAsmund> You retain your native species
[19:20] <+DaneAsmund> In Mirrar, Umbrans have a bad reputation, as they are all about archaic things like “preserving the world”, which Mirrar don’t really agree with
[19:21] <+DaneAsmund> And Mirrar who end up in Umbra have a difficult time integrating into society, as Umbra has fewer large cities, and only one nation in the corner of the world. The rest are city-states
[19:21] <+DaneAsmund> While in Mirn the world is divided by nation, so Umbrans have to find a place to fit in
[19:21] <&Doctor> Shifting gears a bit, what’s the core mechanic?
[19:21] <~Dan> That being the case, is the nature of both sides of the mirror commonly known?
[19:21] <+DaneAsmund> Doctor Sure! The system itself is built on a 6 attribute and specialties system. The attributes are Might, Finesse, Intellect, Body, Speech, and Soul. The specialties are suggested in the book, but are not a set list, like normal with skills. They are free for you to pick as you please, allowing you to make your character very good at very specific things.
[19:21] <+DaneAsmund> Scores in attributes and specialties range from 1-10, with 2 being subpar, 4 being average, 6 being incredible, and 7-10 being heroic/epic scores. The randomizing element is pools of d6’s, with the goal of rolling the pools of dice for successes (5’s and 6’s).
[19:22] <+DaneAsmund> (had that answer at the ready : ) )
[19:22] <+DaneAsmund> Dan Yes, both sides are aware of the other world, though in many cases they have skewed understandings of the other world, how the people of the other world live
[19:22] <+DaneAsmund> Similar to how people on Earth have skewed ideals of other countries from stereotypes, the same applies here
[19:23] <+DaneAsmund> Umbrans live in a world with spirits, where the world must be respected. So they have questionable feelings about the super-cities of Mirn, even if they have never seen one
[19:23] <+DaneAsmund> And vice versa, Mirrar feel that Umbrans are a bit primal/savage in a way
[19:25] <+DaneAsmund> And there is quite a bit more diversity still from there. Umbrans and Mirrar aren’t the only sentient races in their worlds, and theres still diversity among the races
[19:25] <+DaneAsmund> Though you will be playing a Mirrar in Mirn, or an Umbran in Umbra, there are many more choices to this. Each race has subraces based on the elements, which are further divied up until you have 14 bloodlines to pick from for each world, each with 5 unique racial abilities to their bloodline.
[19:25] <+Skullz> So the two are aware of each other’s existence.
[19:25] <~Dan> Do the other races share souls?
[19:26] <+DaneAsmund> Oh definitely. They both have ideas of the other’s existences from memories given by their “others”, and from the unbound individuals who are in their world
[19:26] <+DaneAsmund> Uniquely, the soul sharing thing is MOSTLY just between Umbrans and Mirrar
[19:26] <+DaneAsmund> There are rules for “odd tethers” where a character is tied to a plant or an animal in the other world
[19:26] <+DaneAsmund> And there will be forthcoming rules for being oddly tethered to one of those other sentient races
[19:26] <+DaneAsmund> but generally the other sentient races do not share souls
[19:27] <~Dan> What are the other races?
[19:27] <+DaneAsmund> These rules that let you be tied to a plant or animals are the really cool rules to me that allow your game masters (called Story Leaders) to be different for each world
[19:28] <+DaneAsmund> ie Story Leader A plays in Umbra where their character is an animal, Story Leader B plays in Mirn, where their character is a plant
[19:28] <+DaneAsmund> They vary a little bit, but I can gloss them a little
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[19:28] <+DaneAsmund> In Umbra, there are living shadows appropriately called Shades that are pretty neutral to Umbrans, and considered mildly prophetic
[19:29] <+DaneAsmund> There are also a race called the Bacha (ba-sha) who live in caves, which are humanoid to an extent, though their lower half is like a milipede
[19:29] <+DaneAsmund> Who are long term racial enemies of the Umbrans
[19:30] <+DaneAsmund> The last one are a race called Diluvians, who exist in both worlds, though they look mildly different. They are neutral in both worlds, and are a young race
[19:30] <+DaneAsmund> In Mirn, there are similar three races, including the Diluvians
[19:30] <+DaneAsmund> A race of living reflections are the long-term feud race for Mirrar, and a race of sentient mold/fungus called the Wen exist who are friendly towards the Mirrar
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[19:31] <+DaneAsmund> Though the Mirrar mostly just use them to cultivate for plants for food
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[19:31] <~Dan> (Howdy, Lassek!)
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[19:31] <+DaneAsmund> (whew!) As you can see one of the big hurdles is getting set into each world, as they are full worlds with multiple races, animals, plants, unique landscapes, etc
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[19:31] <~Dan> (Howdy, SkippywGuest00!)
[19:32] <+DaneAsmund> And each world also has a unique mechanic/attribute that really helps settle you into that world
[19:32] <+SkippywGuest00> Hi all
[19:32] <+DaneAsmund> Hi Skippywguest00!
[19:33] <~Dan> (Skippy: You can fix your name with the /nick command if you like; e.g., /nick Skippyw)
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[19:33] <+DaneAsmund> I think one of the really easy ways to see some of the big differences is by looking at the core elements in the worlds
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[19:33] <+DaneAsmund> In Umbra, there are five core elements, and 4 towers that have been built to reflect them, with a fifth symbolic tower for the final element. These elements in Umbra are Knowledge, Death, Fire, Dream, and Shadow.
[19:33] <+DaneAsmund> In Mirn, there are three core elements with corresponding wells, these being Time, Light, and Quick-Silver. Four additional elements and wells have been fabricated, these being Might, Determination, Cunning, and Vision.
[19:34] <+DaneAsmund> So you can see in Umbra big concepts, whereas in Mirn they made up their own elements that coincided with positive qualities for their own race
[19:34] <+DaneAsmund> The dynamic of reverence for the natural world/natural qualities versus pride and nationalism is big here
[19:35] <~Dan> Man. This game takes some mind-wrapping time. 🙂
[19:36] <+DaneAsmund> It certainly does, which is why the game system itself is pretty darn simple, especially if you’ve played another RPG before
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[19:36] <~Dan> (wb, Doctor)
[19:36] <~Dan> How long is a day in the setting?
[19:36] <+DaneAsmund> The additional unique rules for the whole Bleed system, as well as the 7th, unique attribute to each world are slowly built up over play
[19:37] <+DaneAsmund> The days are weird for the setting, because in a way it is always day, since when the sun sets the world goes into stasis
[19:37] <+DaneAsmund> But a single sun rise and set period is 10 hours usually
[19:37] <+DaneAsmund> though the Story Leader can speed a day up or slow one down for dramatic effect, or to play out a long session
[19:38] <+DaneAsmund> There are three suns, but the green sun (which is the one that decides which world is active) can quicken or slow
[19:38] <~Dan> Really? By how much? Any range there?
[19:39] <+DaneAsmund> There’s definitely a lot going on in the worlds and the system, so I wouldnt advertise it as a “pick it up night one and try a one-shot”, there is certainly a little reading that leads in to playing the game
[19:39] <+DaneAsmund> The sun can quicken to the point where there is only a single hour in the cycle of a particular world
[19:39] <+DaneAsmund> Though again, for the inhabitants of the world, they enter a stasis, so when the sun comes back around, it’s like no real time has passed
[19:40] <+DaneAsmund> They remember dreaming, but only vaguely, as a sort of shortened memory
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[19:41] <~Dan> Do games usually alternate between the worlds in the same adventure?
[19:41] <+DaneAsmund> So if your SL really wanted to build up the drama of a combat, they could even have the day pause in the middle of it. (Could be a nightmare if you are using grid paper and minis and you dont get back till next session, but it’s an option!)
[19:41] <+DaneAsmund> Absolutely.
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[19:41] <+DaneAsmund> The campaigns/adventures can be separate, and in that case maybe your group wants to stay there until it’s done
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[19:41] <~Dan> (Howdy, XON2000!)
[19:41] <~Dan> (Welcome, Guest11!)
[19:41] <+XON2000> Hey there!
[19:41] <+DaneAsmund> But the campaigns/adventures can be intertwined. Perhaps the issue is the same in both worlds, being caused by the same villain
[19:42] <+DaneAsmund> Hello XON2000
[19:42] <+DaneAsmund> Hello Guest 11!
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[19:42] <~Dan> (Welcome to #rpgnet, Guest66!)
[19:42] <+DaneAsmund> Another key thing is your group can throw away one of the worlds entirely, and just play in one of the worlds, keeping it simple
[19:42] <+DaneAsmund> The system is very adaptable
[19:42] <~Dan> Does magic exist?
[19:43] <+DaneAsmund> Kind of, but not quite in the way you might be thinking
[19:43] <&Doctor> (Guest 66, you can change your name with the /nick command)
[19:43] <+DaneAsmund> Racial abilities can often allow you to do pretty magical/fantastical things which might seem like magic
[19:43] <+XON2000> DanAsmund, I just watched your KS video, and you mentioned that you’re looking to have professional artwork done. Do you have an artist(s) in mind?
[19:43] <+DaneAsmund> And the 7th attribute (which is unique to each world) allows you to do unique quasi-magical things
[19:44] <+DaneAsmund> In Umbra, the attribute is Umbrasium, which allows you to talk to, interact with, and in some cases even comand the spirits of the world
[19:44] <+DaneAsmund> Umbra has a true animistic belief system, so there are spirits to things like the wind, stones, water, etc
[19:44] <+DaneAsmund> In Mirrar, the attribute is Techolonium, which allows you to integrate with the natural technology (called techolony) in the world
[19:45] <+DaneAsmund> Allowing you to do seemingly technological things with a magical twist, like uploading your memories to devices, trasnfering your body through devices, etc
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[19:45] <~Dan> (Howdy, Alaren!)
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[19:45] <+Alaren> (howdy)
[19:45] <~Dan> (Howdy, ZurnCentral! wb to #rpgnet!)
[19:45] <+DaneAsmund> vast metal or glass deposits are common in Mirn, and ancient techolony that no one built can be found in old ruins
[19:45] <+DaneAsmund> (Hey everyone!)
[19:46] <+ZurnCentral> (Hey guys!)
[19:46] <~Dan> ( DaneAsmund, ZurnCentral is a recent Q&A guest himself. 🙂 )
[19:46] <+DaneAsmund> So in a way, the natural magic of Mirn is the natural technology
[19:46] <+DaneAsmund> (Awesome! Zurncentral we should exchange information after : )! )
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[19:46] <~Dan> (wb, SkippywGuest00!)
[19:47] <~Dan> How advanced is the technology of Mirn?
[19:47] <+DaneAsmund> As a roleplayer, I am hugely partial to spellcasters (ie I only play them) so this was a big step for me in not bringing in a magic system
[19:48] <+DaneAsmund> The technology of Mirn is natural to them, so they are using computer consoles with holographic displays alongside swords and leather armor
[19:48] <+DaneAsmund> There are naturally forming wells of lightning int he ground in some places, so electricity is a go
[19:48] <+DaneAsmund> But there are no firearms or anything requiring rocket propulsion necessarily
[19:49] <+DaneAsmund> They do have light-cannons, which discharge lightning in a line, but they have few shots
[19:49] <+DaneAsmund> And they have stun-whips, and swords with charged electric bases for an added shock
[19:49] <+DaneAsmund> But these are limited use, so it hasnt seen much use in weapons
[19:50] <+DaneAsmund> Technology is really a thing of inadequacy/what’s needed, yknow? We needed to hunter better than with bows, so we used gunpowder in rifles
[19:50] <+DaneAsmund> Mirrar dont have those problems so much
[19:50] <+DaneAsmund> They technically could be building construction vehicles at this point, but there are natural resources in steam crabs, which are massive beasts of labor as much machine as organic
[19:50] <+ZurnCentral> So almost like the TV series Terra Nova: no magic, but some high-tech that should be used sparingly?
[19:50] <+DaneAsmund> So they utilize those instead of advancing on real construction equipment
[19:51] <+DaneAsmund> Im not super familiar with Terra Nova, but yes, that’s about right
[19:51] <&Doctor> It seems like you have a lot going on here: what do you consider the dominant themes of the game?
[19:51] <+DaneAsmund> Government centers and the Nation of Light have a lot more use of technology, but the average person might not ever need it
[19:52] <+DaneAsmund> I consider it to be in many ways very open to fantasy/adventure, like a typical D&D or pathfinder style game, but both worlds have their overlying themes
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[19:52] <+DaneAsmund> So in Umbra a typical campaign would be traversing the open wilds, ransacking ruins, getting that treasure, while facing the creatures in the dark, and the Bacha from the caves. Very traditional fantasy adventure
[19:53] <~Dan> Bacha being the centipeople?
[19:53] <+DaneAsmund> While Mirrar has much less int he way of wilds, so it’s well set for civilization adventure, nations warring, political upheaval, or politics, if your group is into that
[19:53] <+DaneAsmund> Yes, the centipedes in the caves
[19:53] <+DaneAsmund> I have an image of them up on the Kickstarter now actually haha
[19:53] <+DaneAsmund> If you scroll slightly, they have tentacle mouths and centipede bodies
[19:53] <+DaneAsmund> (Link: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cosmicmirrorgames/umbra-and-mirn-cosmic-mirror-rpg)https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cosmicmirrorgames/umbra-and-mirn-cosmic-mirror-rpg
[19:53] <+ZurnCentral> Ah: so perhaps more potential built into the game for an intrigue-based campaign, rather than just hack-and-slash?
[19:54] <+DaneAsmund> Ive done 70 or so (more I think?) illustrations at this point for the game myself
[19:54] <+DaneAsmund> Which has been half the fun for me haha
[19:54] <~Dan> Gah! Those things are freaky. O.o
[19:54] <+DaneAsmund> Yeah, they are definitely painted to be the antagonists of the world/general enemies for a game
[19:55] <+DaneAsmund> Zurncentral absolutely. The game is open to whatever you want, really, but I think of Umbra as being fantasy with a taint of darkness/shadow
[19:55] <+DaneAsmund> And Mirn as being fantasy with a taint of technology + sprawling civilization
[19:56] <+DaneAsmund> So they can really facilitate any genre, you just need the will to make it work, or to set it in the right parts of the worlds
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[19:56] <+DaneAsmund> My next two systems have a set goal/how you will go about playing/theme
[19:57] <+DaneAsmund> But these are really super open, minorly living worlds that can facilitate whatever you need it to
[19:57] <~Dan> Do you have a character sheet posted?
[19:58] <+DaneAsmund> Yes, I have put them up before on the Tumblr and Facebook. Im sure I could grab the link real quick
[19:58] <+DaneAsmund> Just in general, here’s the FB with illustrations up of the other sentient races, and that sort of thing (Link: https://www.facebook.com/CosmicMirrorGames/)https://www.facebook.com/CosmicMirrorGames/
[19:59] <+DaneAsmund> (Link: https://www.facebook.com/CosmicMirrorGames/photos/pcb.239786506401810/239785823068545/?type=3&theater)https://www.facebook.com/CosmicMirrorGames/photos/pcb.239786506401810/239785823068545/?type=3&theater
[19:59] <+XON2000> Did you intentionally avoid humanoid body types for your races, and if so, what was your reasoning?
[19:59] <+DaneAsmund> So here’s the sheets, there are different ones for each world, mostly just to facilitate the unique 7th attribute, but also to help you (the player) differentiate between which sheet is which character
[20:00] <+DaneAsmund> XON2000 To be honest, when I started working on it the races were strictly human. Then shortly, I began thinking about weirder races, and humans still existing in the worlds
[20:00] <+DaneAsmund> But then I settled on what really looked unique/interesting to me, which were strictly non-human worlds
[20:00] <+DaneAsmund> All my other games/systems feature humans as options, or the only race
[20:00] <+DaneAsmund> So I wanted to try something else
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[20:01] <+DaneAsmund> Of course, since it’s my first game to have a finished core book, it sets up the opposite expecation!
[20:01] <+XON2000> I’ve always thought it would be interesting to play in a setting that had no humans.
[20:02] <+DaneAsmund> Well great! I’ve had some people come back to me on this and just say “This has no humans, I would never play it. But cool idea”
[20:02] <+DaneAsmund> So it’s good to hear the opposite as well haha
[20:02] <+XON2000> I see you’re from Denver. Are you aware of the large art community we have? If you haven’t already found an artist, there are lots of places around here to look.
[20:03] <~Dan> You’re definitely taking a risk in that regard. An admirable effort, IMO.
[20:03] <+DaneAsmund> Haha, thanks! Im from Iowa, jsut lived in Chicago, and just came here this last year.
[20:03] <+DaneAsmund> So I’m getting acclimated. I have done 70 illustrations on my own, and am not delving into color for two page spreads, but I am no professional
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[20:04] <~Dan> (Howdy, Mike_Myler!)
[20:04] <+DaneAsmund> And I have friends who ARE, so I have seen from their doodles how much better these could all look
[20:04] <+XON2000> Ah. Denver Comic Con is this weekend. The Artist Valley would be a good place to start!
[20:04] <+DaneAsmund> So I really want to populate the book with strong professional artists
[20:04] <+DaneAsmund> That’s fair, I’ve thought about going!
[20:04] <+DaneAsmund> I have been reaching out to some artists Ive found early, offering my own money (which there isnt much of!) for some early illustrations
[20:04] <~Dan> I think this is a game that will demand some excellent, evocative art.
[20:05] <+DaneAsmund> To get an idea on what I could get done!
[20:05] <+DaneAsmund> Agreed
[20:05] <+XON2000> Yeah, art can be expensive, but good art is worth it!
[20:05] <+DaneAsmund> I finally started color palletes today, (which you can also see further down on the Kickstarter) and have been talking with an artist on going color
[20:05] <~Dan> Mike_Myler there might have some tips for you. He’s quite the accomplished game author himself. 🙂
[20:05] <+DaneAsmund> Since all my art is B&W, I hadnt really though some of it haha
[20:05] <+DaneAsmund> Oh I would absolutely accept any suggestions and advice haha
[20:06] <+DaneAsmund> I’m not new to self publishing, but gamebooks are a whole different beast
[20:06] * ~Dan nods
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[20:06] <~Dan> (Howdy, Vorthon!)
[20:07] <+Vorthon> (Hey.)
[20:07] <+XON2000> I have to run. I’m going to be at DCC myself, and I have a lot of preparations to make. If you happen to come to the con, come say hi at table 175. I’m Shawn; look for the banner that says “The Specialists”. Good luck with your Kickstarter!
[20:07] <~Dan> (Take care, XON2000!)
[20:07] <&Doctor> My advice, and I do not mean this as at all critical, would be to farm out the art and focus on the text. A good artist can draw to your specs but only you can really get the ideas nailed down on paper.
[20:07] <+DaneAsmund> Thanks a bunch XON2000 !
[20:07] <+XON2000> Bye!
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[20:08] <~Dan> How does combat work?
[20:08] <+DaneAsmund> Thanks Doctor, it’s good advice for real. I’ve edited professionally in the past, so I’m pretty self-critical when it comes to the text
[20:08] <+DaneAsmund> The combat is meant to be pretty simple. I have a Might of 4, and a Specialty in Long Sword of 3. You are in front of me, and have a defense of 2. I take my dice pool of 7 dice, take out 2 for your defense, and roll
[20:09] <+DaneAsmund> 5’s and 6’s are successes, and mean you hit. You reroll successes to see if you get extra damage. Each one adds one damage
[20:09] <+DaneAsmund> The damage is based on the weapons, plus half your Might
[20:09] <&Doctor> No problem. I have found it much easier to tell an artist “no no… more -fangs- man…” than it is to try to explain something in my head they are trying to put into words
[20:09] <+DaneAsmund> in this case, let’s say I hit. A longsword deals 1 damage, +2 for half my Might
[20:09] <+DaneAsmund> So I deal 3 total
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[20:10] <+DaneAsmund> Armor subtracts from the resulting damage
[20:10] <+DaneAsmund> I put in a form of criticals called the 3×6 rule
[20:10] <+DaneAsmund> If on your primary attack, you get 3 6’s
[20:11] <+DaneAsmund> You instead add your full Might to the damage
[20:11] <~Dan> (Howdy, jeffszusz!)
[20:11] <+DaneAsmund> So in that same case, I would have dealt 1 damage +4 for full Might, being 5 damage
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[20:11] <+DaneAsmund> Health ranges from about 7 to 17 at character creation
[20:12] <+DaneAsmund> So there is some potential for straight out kills on really good rolls if you have the lowest possible health
[20:12] <+DaneAsmund> but the average character can take a few blows before being knocked out
[20:13] <+DaneAsmund> Ranged combat is very similar, Finesse + Specialty versus the targets Dodge (range Defense)
[20:13] * ~Dan nods
[20:13] <+DaneAsmund> Only real difference is that you also have to target some part of them, and the targetting penalties are on the character sheets for reference
[20:13] <+DaneAsmund> So there’s not a ton you need to reference the book for after the sheets are filled out
[20:14] <~Dan> You said you re-roll each successful die to see if it comes up 1 for more damage?
[20:14] <+DaneAsmund> Yes, so the deal with that is pretty simple
[20:14] <+ZurnCentral> Not having to constantly go back to the book is really nice – big fan of that
[20:15] <+DaneAsmund> As is, damage never changes on your weapon. It’s weapon damage + half Might for melee weapons
[20:15] <+DaneAsmund> The variable on damage comes from your roll
[20:15] * ~Dan nods
[20:15] <+DaneAsmund> So you roll 5 dice, and get 2 successes to hit. You re-roll those 2 successes
[20:15] <~Dan> Got it. Cool.
[20:15] <+DaneAsmund> If they come up successes
[20:15] <+DaneAsmund> you get extra damage per success
[20:15] <~Dan> I always like degree of success to lead to more damage, even if (as in this case) it’s only potentially.
[20:16] <+DaneAsmund> Dice pools never get crazy big, so you should never have to worry about characters having more damage from their roll than their weapon
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[20:16] <+DaneAsmund> The idea there for me was that if you get hit by a greatsword, you should almost never take more damage from someone using a dagger
[20:16] <+DaneAsmund> It can happen with really high Might, but it shouldn’t happen often
[20:16] * ~Dan nods
[20:16] <+DaneAsmund> So weapon damage is a bigger deal than your dicepool in most cases
[20:17] <~Dan> Now, I have to ask at this point if you are familiar with something called the Ninjasaurus Effect.
[20:17] <+DaneAsmund> Haha, I am not
[20:17] <+DaneAsmund> Please, share that with me
[20:17] <~Dan> Sure!
[20:17] <+DaneAsmund> Im assuming it’s something to do with tiny arms but massive might, ie massive damage with tiny weapons
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[20:18] <~Dan> It’s what happens when you base a combat skill off of strength — namely, that big, seemingly clumsy creatures become master fighters.
[20:18] <+DaneAsmund> Right
[20:18] <~Dan> Do you have a way of addressing that issue, given that you base melee off of Might?
[20:18] <+DaneAsmund> So Finesse is applicable to ranged weapons and finessable weapons (daggers, rapiers, those typical ‘finessable’ things)
[20:19] <+DaneAsmund> But yes, unfortunately there is that issue still to a small level
[20:19] <+DaneAsmund> If you have Might 10 (which is hard to get, max stat) and you stab someone with a knife and hit
[20:19] <+DaneAsmund> That’s 6 damage base before re-rolls
[20:19] <+DaneAsmund> half your might (5) plus knife (1).
[20:19] <+DaneAsmund> A greatsword’s base damage is 4
[20:20] <+DaneAsmund> If you have a Might of 4, you are hitting with a Greatsword for the same base damage as a Might 10 person with a knife
[20:20] <~Dan> Oh, it’s not the damage that’s an issue for me so much as it is the chance to hit.
[20:20] <+DaneAsmund> Oh, same issue, absolutely
[20:20] <+DaneAsmund> Umbra and Mirn uses a pretty intuitive (I hope!) and simple system, so there is definitely that issue
[20:21] <+DaneAsmund> High Might makes it easy to hit people in melee
[20:21] <+DaneAsmund> But I think that’s poor XP spending
[20:21] <+DaneAsmund> It’s much cheaper to raise your specialty in the weapon than to raise your Might
[20:21] <&Doctor> I may have missed this but how is defense determined?
[20:21] <+DaneAsmund> So the system is more supportive of increasing your fighting ability than just your Might, XP wise
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[20:22] <+DaneAsmund> Defense is just based on Finesse, plus any specialties you take in it
[20:22] <&Doctor> (wb Skippy)
[20:22] <+DaneAsmund> Again, a very simple system with small (1-10) numbers
[20:22] <&Doctor> So basically, if you wanted, you could raise your finesse at the same rate as the other guy’s Might
[20:22] <+DaneAsmund> My next system is more about combat realism, so it has things like bleeding, specific combat abilities (that would prevent the ninjasaurus effect), etc
[20:23] <+DaneAsmund> And yeah, definitely
[20:23] <+DaneAsmund> Or on the cheaper side, raise a specialty in Defense
[20:23] <+DaneAsmund> It’s far cheaper to have Finesse 5 with a specialty in Defense 5 than to try to buy up to Finesse 10
[20:23] <+ZurnCentral> And defense specialty would be on the parry side of things? Armor?
[20:23] <+DaneAsmund> XP is not overwhelming, and there are no levels involved, so the scaling is not gratuitous like in D&D
[20:24] <+ZurnCentral> (i.e., how does armor compare to defense in regards to cost)
[20:24] <+DaneAsmund> So you have Defense/Dodge and Armor
[20:24] <+ZurnCentral> (because it seems like you could simply reduce incoming damage with armor, which would keep you alive longer if damage is mostly static
[20:25] <+DaneAsmund> Defense and dodge apply to the dice pool, and armor applies to successes, though in many cases it cannot reduce damage to less than 1
[20:25] <+DaneAsmund> Im not sure I would quite compare them because of that, but armor is sufficiently expensive that not everyone will have it, or they might just have the 1
[20:25] <+DaneAsmund> If someone feels like blowing all their starting credits (money) on big armor, they could have up to Armor 3
[20:25] <+DaneAsmund> Where a starting character can easily start off with Defense of 6, if they have their Finesse be their higher stat
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[20:26] <~Dan> (I think we’re about to have a netsplit.)
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[20:26] <+DaneAsmund> When I first finished off the combat system, I had real worries about numbers here or there being too big, people being too hard to hit, etc, but testing proved that to be untrue
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[20:27] <+DaneAsmund> (ha, it might seem so)
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[20:27] <+DaneAsmund> Zurncentral that was a huge worry, which is why there is a clause for how much armor can really reduce damage, and how armor can stack from shields and worn armor
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[20:27] <+DaneAsmund> Also, what the armor covers
[20:27] <+ZurnCentral> Ah, that makes sense
[20:27] <+DaneAsmund> You can take big penalties on your attacks to aim for parts not covered
[20:27] <~Dan> Do you have any guidelines as to the specificity of specialties?
[20:28] <+ZurnCentral> (I tend to play armor tanks, so that’s one of the first concerns I had, 😛 )
[20:28] <+DaneAsmund> The guidelines are that they should not be general enough that they can stack with others, unless it’s crazy (like a specialty in climbing cliff faces and in rapiers, if you happen to be hanging from the side of a cliff and fighting with a rapier)
[20:28] <+DaneAsmund> I have a long list of suggested specialties for each attribute in the book
[20:28] <+DaneAsmund> So there is plenty to compare to
[20:29] <+DaneAsmund> And I went *out there* for some of them, so there should be a strong guideline for each thing
[20:30] <~Dan> Do specialties default?
[20:30] <+DaneAsmund> An important thing for me is to have rules that support the possibility of weilding two shields and being in fullplate, which is supported in all of my games!
[20:30] <+DaneAsmund> I always wanted to be a super pacifist protector tank myself in other systems, but didnt see much support
[20:30] <+DaneAsmund> Dan How do you mean exactly?
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[20:31] <~Dan> Well, you said that longsword is an example specialty, IIRC?
[20:31] <+DaneAsmund> Yes, true
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[20:31] <~Dan> Okay, so what happens if I have Longsword and I’m stuck using a short sword? Do I gain any benefit at all?
[20:32] <+DaneAsmund> Ahhh, gotcha
[20:32] <+DaneAsmund> Well, there’s a couple ways that goes down
[20:33] <+DaneAsmund> Okay, sorry, had to starighten that out for myself between my systems!
[20:34] <+DaneAsmund> Yes, so the deal is that specialties are necessarry in a weapon for you to be considered ‘proficient’. Meaning you can attack with any weapon, but to disarm, trip, sunder, etc with the weapon, or to be considered trained with a weapon (to be hired as a guard for example)
[20:34] <+DaneAsmund> You need at least a single specialty in the weapon
[20:34] <+DaneAsmund> Using a weapon without a specialty has no penalty to rolls or anything, but you do not gaint hat specialty
[20:34] <+DaneAsmund> So in your situation
[20:34] <+DaneAsmund> Using your short sword, you dont gain bonuses for being super good with a long sword
[20:35] <+DaneAsmund> That is a flaw of the simplicity of the system as of now, I toyed with letting you use half your specialty in a related weapon for a while
[20:35] <~Dan> That’s what I would have done, I think.
[20:35] <+DaneAsmund> That’s how it is in my other system, so I was confused when I couldnt find it in the Umbra + Mirn book itself
[20:36] <+DaneAsmund> It’s very likely how it will end up, as I want to streamline it a little more with the next systems
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[20:36] <+DaneAsmund> The next ones will be using a 12 (or is it 15?) attribute + related specialties system, and be much more rules heavy
[20:36] <+DaneAsmund> So I want the systems to feel similar, even if one ends up having more variables
[20:36] * ~Dan nods
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[20:37] <+DaneAsmund> I will also be releasing (for free, and in the expansion book) rules for if you want to update to the more advanced rules/rules heavy version
[20:37] <+DaneAsmund> Though I think Umbra + Mirn works best with this simpler system, fewer overall variables
[20:37] <~Dan> Oh, that’s cool.
[20:37] <+DaneAsmund> Since theres already so much going on
[20:38] * ~Dan nods
[20:38] <+DaneAsmund> But ofcourse if people got comfortable with the base rules, stepping it up for more specificity might be cool, too
[20:38] <+ZurnCentral> I like that option of advanced rules being addenda: it means people who are newer to roleplay can cut their teeth on the game, and once they get the hang of it they can add advanced rules
[20:38] <+DaneAsmund> For example, in the rules-heavy version, there’s a difference between the stat that determines your damage with melee weapons and your stamina, which determines the number of attacks you can make
[20:38] <~Dan> Is 10 a hard universal cap on attribute levels, or does that just apply to PCs?
[20:39] <+DaneAsmund> Exactly
[20:39] <+DaneAsmund> 10 absolutely is a soft cap
[20:39] <+DaneAsmund> There are things with attributes and specialties over 10
[20:39] <+DaneAsmund> Though I want to try and keep players under that
[20:39] * ~Dan nods
[20:39] <~Dan> Cool.
[20:39] <+DaneAsmund> That being said, there are ways to get up to 15 in attributes, through the use of dream powers
[20:39] <~Dan> Hard attribute caps bug the Hell outta me. 🙂
[20:39] <+DaneAsmund> Though only for small bursts of time
[20:40] <+DaneAsmund> Depending on how later-game/high experience characters play, long campaigns, etc
[20:40] <+DaneAsmund> I will consider offering new options in the expansion book for those things
[20:40] <+DaneAsmund> But so far I am seeing 10 as a safe cap for base scores
[20:40] * ~Dan nods
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[20:41] <+DaneAsmund> I just realized I havent even mentioned the sheer number of options in this core book
[20:41] <~Dan> Oh? Please do!
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[20:41] <+DaneAsmund> 7 subraces in Mirrar, 5 subraces in Umbra (for the elements), with 14 bloodlines total in each world. Each bloodline has 5 racial abilities, one that they start with, 4 to earn with XP
[20:41] <+DaneAsmund> thats 28 bloodline choices, 140 racial abilities
[20:42] <+ZurnCentral> Wow, that’s a lot
[20:42] <+DaneAsmund> The gifts you can give your other when you go into stasis range from memories to attributes to specialties to weirder things, like dream powers
[20:42] <+DaneAsmund> There are 60 dream powers in the core book
[20:42] <&Doctor> How much of a character’s ability comes from racial abilities and how much from skills etc
[20:42] <+DaneAsmund> One for each level of each attribute, 1-10
[20:43] <+DaneAsmund> Specialties and attributes determine your dice pools for most everything, the racial abilities offer a slew of interesting passive abilities, or once (or more) per day powers
[20:43] <~Dan> Can you give us some examples of dream powers?
[20:43] <+DaneAsmund> You can even gift your racial abilities to your “other”, so there are bound to be combinations of racial abiities I havent even thought of
[20:43] <+DaneAsmund> For sure
[20:43] <+DaneAsmund> So my sample characters Minos and Panos
[20:44] <+DaneAsmund> Minos goes to sleep, and decides to send Panos a dream power
[20:44] <+DaneAsmund> Let’s say he sees shes about to go into combat
[20:44] <+DaneAsmund> He offers her the Body 3 power of Moving Organs
[20:44] <+DaneAsmund> At the start of her day, she rolls her Soul as a dicepool, and gets a number of uses of the power for the day equal to the successes + 1, so you always get at least one use
[20:45] <+DaneAsmund> Whenever she would take 3 or more damage in a day, she uses the power to reduce the damage by 2
[20:45] <~Dan> Moving Organs, eh?
[20:45] <+DaneAsmund> So the powers are listed by attribute and score. Panos has a Body of 3, so she can have any of the Body 1, 2, or 3 dream powers
[20:45] <~Dan> That takes guts.
[20:45] <+DaneAsmund> (Ha!)
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[20:46] <+DaneAsmund> Alternatively, he could have given her The Speech 1 power of Disarming Smile, which automatically makes people friendly towards you on first meeting, though your poor diplomacy and Speech rolls can botch that if you’re not careful
[20:46] <~Dan> How much of a bestiary do you have?
[20:46] <+DaneAsmund> I made a single power for each 1-10 score for each attribute to start with
[20:46] <+DaneAsmund> The expansion book will feature the same, so far, to double the options
[20:47] <+DaneAsmund> The bestiary is very light right now. I envisioned the game as much more of Umbrans fighting Umbrans, or Mirrar fight Mirrar, or even Mirrar fighting Umbrans
[20:47] <+DaneAsmund> But there are about 10 or so animals/monsters in each world listed so far
[20:47] <+DaneAsmund> Along with plants, and poisons etc for each world
[20:47] <+DaneAsmund> Then there’s the sentient races
[20:48] <~Dan> I would think that monsters would be a big deal in Umbra.
[20:48] <+DaneAsmund> Ha, Umbra has its fair share of monstrous creatures. While the bestiary is still fairly light for Umbra, the spirits add a whole nother population to the world, so it’s a much more busy world as far as creatures go
[20:49] <+DaneAsmund> Umbra has about 5 or 6 monster-y creatures that are common in the world, as well as larger, more worrisome monsters
[20:50] <+DaneAsmund> The Bacha (centipede people) are descended from a massive centipede monster that is said to protect all caves, making caves a no-go for Umbrans
[20:50] <+DaneAsmund> My biggest concern is in making unique creatures for each world, worldbuilding twice at once for the same game requires the monsters and races FEEL different. I dont want a player to be in Umbra and refer to a creature in Mirn out of general confusion
[20:51] <~Dan> Sure. 🙂
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[20:51] <~Dan> In what remains of regular time, is there anything we haven’t covered that you’d like to bring up?
[20:51] <+DaneAsmund> It sounds like I’m backpedaling there a little haha, but until you just asked, I hadnt even really considered how small the bestiaries were, since my primary idea of the game would be sentient v sentient
[20:51] <~Dan> (And you’re more than welcome to hang out with us as long as you like, mind you.)
[20:51] <+DaneAsmund> Oh man haha
[20:51] <+DaneAsmund> I just really want to stress the flexibility of the system
[20:52] <+DaneAsmund> You can play in just one world, with a simple story
[20:52] <+DaneAsmund> You can play in both worlds with two story leaders running each world
[20:52] <+DaneAsmund> You can play in both worlds with one storyleader and a crazy, overarching plot that affects both worlds
[20:52] <+DaneAsmund> And it will be compatible with my future four (FOUR!) systems
[20:53] <~Dan> (Count’em! Four!)
[20:53] <+DaneAsmund> And if you back the Kickstarter for even a dollar, you get an early copy of the base rules, enough to start up a game and try it out
[20:53] <+DaneAsmund> (all of which are much more forthcoming than it seems, like REAL SOON)
[20:53] <~Dan> 🙂
[20:53] <+DaneAsmund> But thats it, I think!
[20:53] <~Dan> Alrighty then! Thanks very much for joining us, DaneAsmund!
[20:53] <+DaneAsmund> (Link: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cosmicmirrorgames/umbra-and-mirn-cosmic-mirror-rpg)https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cosmicmirrorgames/umbra-and-mirn-cosmic-mirror-rpg for posterity!
[20:54] <+DaneAsmund> Thanks Dan for having me!
[20:54] <~Dan> As a reminder, my tip jar is here, if anyone has enjoyed the chat and is feeling generous: (Link: https://gmshoe.wordpress.com/the-gmshoes-tip-jar/)https://gmshoe.wordpress.com/the-gmshoes-tip-jar/ 🙂
[20:54] <&Doctor> Thanks man
[20:54] <+DaneAsmund> It got me thinking about some things to work on still, so thanks a bunch!
[20:54] <~Dan> Absolutely!
[20:54] <~Dan> If you’ll give me just a moment, I’ll get the log posted and get you the link. 🙂
The Hardboiled GMshoe's Office 