[19:09] <+JasonVey> I’m Jason Vey, a writer for Troll Lord Games. I’m responsible for Amazing Adventures, contributed to the CKG, have done the 5e conversions for adventure modules so far, and am working on the conversions for the new Book of Familiars and Companions, among anything else Steve puts on my desk!
[19:11] <+JasonVey> I also said I was going to let Steve go first…then I went first. Welcome to Troll World!
[19:11] <+Trolllord_Steve> I’m Steve Chenault, owner and general manager of Troll Lord Games. Been doing this for about 16 years I guess. I’ve worked on a bit of everything form Castles & Crusades to Gygaxian Fantasy, D&D and so on. I am presently trying to get more stuff on Jason’s desk!
[19:11] <+Trolllord_Steve> That’s alright, I was getting a Dr. Pepper!
[19:12] <+Trolllord_Steve> Not Got_Dr_Pepper…just a Dr. Pepper.
[19:12] <+Got_Dr_Pepper> Dr Pepper for life!
[19:12] <+TheDreadGazebo> ^
[19:12] <+Trolllord_Steve> Now you’re talking! Music to my ears!
[19:12] <+JasonVey> I’m a Pepper, he’s a Pepper, she’s a Pepper, we’re all Peppers, wouldn’t you like to be a Pepper, too?
[19:13] <+JasonVey> (dating myself)
[19:13] <+dormouse> i didn’t go to med school for 8 years so i could be called “Mr.” Pepper
[19:13] <+Trolllord_Steve> 10, 2 and 4, and 6, 8, and 10
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[19:13] <+JasonVey> What’s that, Steve, that new Common Core math?
[19:13] <+Trolllord_Steve> LOL
[19:13] <~Dan> (Howdy, NiTessine, and welcome to #rpgnet, Guest80!)
[19:13] <+Trolllord_Steve> Math! Who needs it!
[19:13] <+OldMan> lol – I have to afk but before I do – one quick Q – any sort of miniature dragon familiar planned?
[19:13] <+Got_Dr_Pepper> Hahahaha.
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[19:14] <+JasonVey> Yes
[19:14] <+JasonVey> Not just miniature dragons. At higher levels you can get full-sized dragons
[19:14] <+dormouse> what about a squirrel
[19:14] <+Trolllord_Steve> The squirrel is already covered!
[19:14] <+JasonVey> Yes, there are squirrels
[19:14] <~Dan> Speaking of familiars, perhaps you should link the folks to your KS? 🙂
[19:14] <+dormouse> hot damn
[19:14] <+OldMan> How do the dragons feel about that? 🙂
[19:14] <+JasonVey> (Link: http://bit.ly/5efamiliars)http://bit.ly/5efamiliars
[19:15] <+Trolllord_Steve> We fund we are going to offer a dragon rider expansion!
[19:15] <+dormouse> what about a flying squirrel
[19:15] <+JasonVey> Yep
[19:15] <~Dan> So for those unaware, what is the supplement about?
[19:15] <+dormouse> woot
[19:15] <+Trolllord_Steve> The list of familiars is extensive.
[19:15] <+Trolllord_Steve> Jason, you want to tackle that one?
[19:15] <+JasonVey> Sure
[19:16] <+JasonVey> So I’m not sure if anyone is familiar (wait for it) with the Book of Familiars for C&C
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[19:16] <+TheDreadGazebo> i am
[19:16] <+TheDreadGazebo> got it right here
[19:16] <+JasonVey> This is a fifth edition conversion of that, which in the end requires a lot of it to take a very different approach
[19:16] <+TheDreadGazebo> was gunna ask a question related to it
[19:17] <+JasonVey> Fifth Edition rules relegate animal companions, familiars and steeds to a pretty basic level. You cast a spell, you get an animal and it doesn’t really do much for you
[19:17] <+JasonVey> We wanted to bring them back to prominence
[19:17] <+JasonVey> So how the book works is, there are a bunch of advantages which work like Feats that you can take to get old-school familiars, animal companions and steeds, all of which have high intelligence, special mystical abilities, etc.
[19:17] <+JasonVey> In addition
[19:18] <+JasonVey> We added new archetypes for each class: circles, paths, colleges, etc. which revolve around getting a familiar.
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[19:18] <~Dan> (Welcome to #rpgnet, Guest95!)
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[19:18] <~Dan> (Howdy, Le_Squide!)
[19:19] <+JasonVey> So for example, there’s a Bard college that allows you to get a personified muse that gives you enhanced bardic abilities
[19:19] <+JasonVey> There’s a Circle of the Beast for Druids that gives you a specialized familiar and abilities tied to the animal kingdom
[19:19] <+JasonVey> A Beast domain for clerics which gives you beast-related spells and a familiar
[19:19] <+JasonVey> And so on and so forth
[19:19] <+dormouse> what’s this legacy blade
[19:20] <+JasonVey> The legacy blade will be the new fighter archetype
[19:20] <+JasonVey> The fighter’s “familiar” is his intelligent heirloom sword, infused with the magic of battle
[19:20] <+JasonVey> There will also be appendices with new monsters and animals, new magic items and new spells
[19:20] <+JasonVey> I think that about covers it
[19:21] <+JasonVey> (done)\
[19:21] <+Got_Dr_Pepper> Continue the good work Jason. Steve, quit slacking. There is work to be done.
[19:21] <+TheDreadGazebo> cool, that all sounds really awesome. have you guys added a new path for the warlock, or have you essentially modified pact of the chain?
[19:21] <+JasonVey> There will be a new Pact for Warlocks
[19:22] <+JasonVey> I’m still playing with that, but I’m adapting the Illusionist familiars from the original BoF to a new Warlock Path
[19:22] <+TheDreadGazebo> sweet
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[19:22] <+Got_Dr_Pepper> And, by slacking. I mean you are one of the hardest working guy in the RPG industry.
[19:22] <+TheDreadGazebo> so, are you guys differentiating between familiar, companion, etc, or are they all treated essentially the same?
[19:22] <+JasonVey> No, there are difference
[19:23] <+JasonVey> differences, even
[19:23] <~Dan> How so?
[19:23] <+xyphoid> are you using the OGL?
[19:23] <+JasonVey> Yes, we are using the OGL
[19:23] <+JasonVey> And the 5e SRD. It’s necessary to really support 5e.
[19:23] <+JasonVey> Familiars are mystical spirits that take the form of animals and have a deep magical connection to their PC partner.
[19:24] <+JasonVey> Animal Companions are highly intelligent and somewhat magical but largely normal animals that can be trained and have soem special abilities
[19:24] <+JasonVey> Steeds are, well, they’re the classic Paladin’s steed, only more pumped up.
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[19:25] <&Le_Squide> Are you at all concerned about a content glut for 5e like there was for 3e/3.5?
[19:25] <+JasonVey> Yes, in fact we are.
[19:25] <+JasonVey> that’s why this book is heavily focused on one area. It’s not a generalized catch-all book.
[19:26] <+JasonVey> All of the new paths and archetypes center around magical companions.
[19:26] <+Trolllord_Steve> Presentation and format will address that as well. We are shooting for a full color, hardcover book. This will help it stand out in the crowd and give it real shelf life in retail shops.
[19:26] <+TheDreadGazebo> going back to the OGL question, will you guys also be utilizing the new DMs Guild?
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[19:26] <+JasonVey> No
[19:27] <+TheDreadGazebo> ok, would you like to expand/comment on that? if not, that’s cool
[19:27] <+Trolllord_Steve> The concept of the DM’s Guild is really cool, but it requires that we yield ownership of the material to WoTC. So if/when we participate in the DMs Guild it won’t be with a property as large as this.
[19:27] <+JasonVey> The DM’s Guild is pretty cool for what it is, but it’s also somewhat restrictive. We don’t want to be stuck doing Faerun-specific material.
[19:27] <~Dan> Makes sense.
[19:27] <+TheDreadGazebo> ah, ok, didnt know it was FR restricted
[19:28] <+TheDreadGazebo> also, the ownership thing, so that makes sense
[19:28] <+TheDreadGazebo> had you guys been planning on this, or did the OGL open you guys up to the idea?
[19:28] <+JasonVey> We were doing 5e adventure module conversions before the new SRD
[19:28] <+JasonVey> The OGL is the same OGL we’ve always had. Nothing is changed there.
[19:28] <+Trolllord_Steve> Yeah, I understand why they are doing that. It allows people to participate in the creation of that world. And the only way to police that is to own it all, otherwise you would just create a nightmare for yourself. Which they certainly don’t want. /done
[19:29] <+TheDreadGazebo> sorry, i meant SRD
[19:29] <+JasonVey> All that’s new is WotC has released an SRD for 5e
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[19:29] <+JasonVey> Right, so we were already doing the A-series of adventure modules. Steve had actually just approached me to start working on Familiars when they announced the new SRD
[19:29] <+Trolllord_Steve> It was on the docket, they just announced the SRD about the time we launched. We were doing it anyway. 🙂
[19:29] <~Dan> (Welcome to #rpgnet, ArthurFrenhin! Here for the Q&A? 🙂 )
[19:29] <+JasonVey> So it was in play before that happened. The new SRD just made it easier
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[19:30] <+TheDreadGazebo> cool
[19:30] <+ArthurFrenhin> No, this is Brian Young
[19:31] <+TheDreadGazebo> hey brian! i really enjoy your work, makes running real myth games much easier, so thank you
[19:31] <+ArthurFrenhin> Thanks! Just wait until you see the newest books…
[19:31] <+TheDreadGazebo> yeah, im sad i had to back out of the KS
[19:32] <+ArthurFrenhin> They will still be printed all the same! So that is a good thing.
[19:32] <+TheDreadGazebo> unless i can jump in earlier, im glad to wait until they go on sale
[19:32] <+TheDreadGazebo> awesome
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[19:33] <~Dan> So possibly an odd question, but… is it possible you guys have done too good a job on this book? As in, will everyone want a companion of some sort if this book’s on the table?
[19:33] <~Dan> (Howdy, TimBrannan!)
[19:33] <+JasonVey> I hope so 😉
[19:33] <+Trolllord_Steve> Yep, they are in the works now. A little more art for Codex Germania.
[19:33] <+JasonVey> If they don’t, I haven’t done my job right!
[19:33] <+TheDreadGazebo> haha
[19:33] <~Dan> Heh. 🙂
[19:33] <+JasonVey> I keep telling Steve that I desperately want to play a Bard, Cleric or Druid with these rules in play
[19:33] <+ArthurFrenhin> I am taking a break before working on the expanded 2nd edition of the Codex Celtarum. The way the book was originally intended in its 20+ years of design and playtesting….
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[19:34] <~Dan> (Howdy, Janana!)
[19:34] <+TimBrannan> Hey all
[19:34] <+ArthurFrenhin> Beirdd neu Deryddon
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[19:36] <~Dan> Well, let me put it another way: If this book’s in use, are characters without a companion at a distinct disadvantage?
[19:36] <+TheDreadGazebo> so what inspired you guys to work so hard on familiars in the first place?
[19:36] <+ArthurFrenhin> Oops, my Welsh was sloppy. Beirdd neu Dderwyddon.
[19:36] <+JasonVey> They shouldn’t be. I’m working hard to balance the familiars rules with the existing archetypes in the book.
[19:36] <+JasonVey> And if you go the advantages routes, you’re replacing feats or ability bumps to get them.
[19:37] <~Dan> Ah, I see.
[19:37] <+TimBrannan> ok here is one. I have the C&C Familiar book. What will the 5e one get me?
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[19:37] <~Dan> (wb, TrollSteve!)
[19:37] <+JasonVey> Well the original Book of Familiars is one of the cooler books in the C&C arsenal, and when we noticed that familiars kind of got the short end of the stick in 5e, we wanted to bring them back to a place of prominence.
[19:37] <+TrollSteve> I seem to be getting booted. It doesn’t like Trolllord_Steve for some reason
[19:37] <~Dan> (Sent you a PM, ArthurFrenhin.)
[19:38] <+JasonVey> Hey, Tim. You missed the discussion earlier about what’s in the book. In short, you’re getting a bunch of new archetypes for classes as well as new advantages (like feats), new spells and magic items, a new bestiary…tons of stuff related to mystical companions for your characters.
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[19:38] <+TimBrannan> nice!
[19:38] <+JasonVey> The approach we’re taking to familiars and companions in this book is completely retooled from the C&C approach, to fit the 5e character build system
[19:40] <+TheDreadGazebo> i could be wrong, but familiars always felt like they got the short end of the stick in D&D. was the original book a passion project or something you thought would be a cool add-on for C&C?
[19:40] <+ArthurFrenhin> I will log out and back in by my proper name to not confuse people too much….
[19:40] <+JasonVey> We’ve released the Barbarian as a free sample on the Kickstarter, so you can get an idea what we’re doing.
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[19:40] <+JasonVey> Steve will have to answer that one. I actually wasn’t involved with the original C&C book
[19:40] <+TimBrannan> nice
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[19:40] <+TimBrannan> that’s on the Kickstarter page?
[19:41] <+JasonVey> Yep
[19:41] <+TrollLordBrianGuest60> Ok, I am back…
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[19:41] <+TrollLordBrianGuest60> Darn it…it tagged me as ‘Guest60’
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[19:41] <~Dan> Just use the /ni- nevermind. 🙂
[19:41] <+TrollLordJason> Since everyone else is using “Trolllord,” I felt left out
[19:41] <+TheDreadGazebo> lol, people seem to be having issues
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[19:42] <+TrollSteve> Dread, the original book was conceived by Mac Golden as a support book for D&D 3.0.
[19:42] <+TrollLordBrian> Finally….
[19:42] <+TheDreadGazebo> oh cool. when did it shift its focus to C&C?
[19:43] <+TrollSteve> He just thought it would be great to detail things like holy swords, steeds, and the like, flesh out the other side of the NPC world. We put it together about the time 3.5 came out. We then had to retool it for that and released it about 3 months before the d20 collapse
[19:43] <+TrollSteve> it still did well for us and sat on the shelf for a while until C&C got entrenched. We then converted it over. It brought a few too many artifacts from 3.5, something Jason is addressing now, but overall was a good fit for the C&C system.
[19:44] <+TrollSteve> But the original concept is still there, bring life to the paladin’s steed and so on.
[19:44] <+TrollSteve> done
[19:44] <+TheDreadGazebo> ah, ok, awesome
[19:44] <+TrollLordJason> Yeah, part of the plan (assuming we fund) is that we’re going to retool and revise the original to fix all those anachronisms, clarify a few things and make it even better for C&C.
[19:45] <+TheDreadGazebo> ok cool, so there will be still in this new book that will work as is in C&C?
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[19:45] <+TheDreadGazebo> stuff*
[19:46] <+TrollLordJason> Sorry, I think I misspoke.
[19:46] <~Dan> You mentioned new magic items. Are those companions themselves, like the magic swords you mentioned?
[19:46] <+TrollLordJason> No, this book is specifically for 5e
[19:46] <+TrollLordJason> We ALSO want to revise the C&C version of the book
[19:46] <+TrollSteve> Well we are offering a PDF of the C&C version here. It will be released with the 5th Edition version
[19:46] <+TheDreadGazebo> ok, thats what i thought, just making sure
[19:46] <+TheDreadGazebo> ah, ok
[19:47] <+TrollLordJason> No, the magic items aren’t themselves companions
[19:47] <+TrollLordJason> They work to enhance your connection or access to familiars or companions
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[19:48] <~Dan> Can you give an example of that?
[19:48] <~Dan> (Howdy, consilium!)
[19:48] <+TrollLordJason> So it could be yet another way to GET a familiar. You get an amulet of the familiar, which makes you count as higher level in terms of determining what special abilities your familiar can have.
[19:49] <+TrollLordJason> You could get a bracelet of animal companionship, which allows you to have an animal companion as though you had the advantage
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[19:49] <+TheDreadGazebo> ah, thats cool, so basically different avenues of acquiring a familiar/companion
[19:49] <+TrollLordJason> The magic items are going to be carried over from the C&C version, retooled as necessary to work for 5e. I’m still toying with them
[19:50] <+TrollLordJason> Dread, yeah. That’s what this book is all about. Everything in here in some way dials down to a focus on familiars and companions
[19:50] <+TrollLordJason> Incidentally, one thing I snuck in there that wasn’t in the C&C version…you can even get things like an orc, kobold or goblin familiar.
[19:51] <+TheDreadGazebo> heh, awesome
[19:52] <+TrollSteve> Ha! I didn’t know that. Very cool!
[19:52] <+TheDreadGazebo> so, do you guys play a lot of 5th edition?
[19:52] <~Dan> So in that case, you’d be talking about a spirit in the form of an orc, kobold, or goblin?
[19:52] <+TrollLordJason> LOL…I probably shouldn’t admit it, but I’m running a bi-weekly 5e game.
[19:52] <+TrollLordJason> Dan, yes, that’s the general idea.
[19:53] <+TrollLordJason> Of course, you could also technically get one as a companion which would be an actual orc, goblin, etc.
[19:53] <~Dan> What class would do that?
[19:53] <+TrollSteve> I don’t regularly. My weekly game is Castles & Crusades!
[19:54] <+TrollLordJason> Just about any class that takes the right advantage
[19:54] <~Dan> If I had a faithful orc companion, I would name him Tontorc.
[19:54] <+TheDreadGazebo> awesome! C&C and 5E are both sweet
[19:54] <+TimBrannan> now I just need to find time to play C&C and D&D5
[19:55] <+TrollLordJason> I had an actual request on the C&C forums for it. At first I wasn’t going to, but then I remembered two things
[19:55] <+TrollLordJason> 1. You can get a freaking dragon. There’s no reason you shouldn’t be able to get a kobold
[19:55] <+TrollLordJason> 2. I’ve played in two D&D games where people had a kobold and a goblin companion, respectively, and they were a lot of fun
[19:56] <+TheDreadGazebo> so, when i spoke to you guys at this last gen con, i remember you brought up briefly how you saw elements of SIEGE/C&C in 5E. do you feel like going back to SIEGE and perhaps modifying it with elements from 5E?
[19:56] <+TrollSteve> That all dovetails nicely with the Players Guide to Aihrde that has the goblin class in it.
[19:56] <+TheDreadGazebo> or even new ideas that youve come up with in the interim
[19:56] <+TrollLordJason> No, there’s no plans to retool the SIEGE engine
[19:56] <+TheDreadGazebo> ok
[19:56] <+TrollLordJason> We don’t have to, really…if you look through the CKG, pretty much everything from 5e is already an option there
[19:57] <+TrollSteve> Dread, no, the Siege Engine works too good. 🙂
[19:57] <+TheDreadGazebo> right, like the spellcasting and so forth
[19:57] <+TheDreadGazebo> agreed!
[19:57] <+TheDreadGazebo> still feels more lightweight than 5E, which i like
[19:57] <+TrollLordJason> It is, very much so. That’s what’s fun about the SIEGE engine.
[19:58] <+TrollLordJason> It’s so open and broad. I always tell people, I don’t pitch the SIEGE engine because I write for it. I write for TLG because I love our games
[19:58] <+TheDreadGazebo> btw, jason, i recently ran an AA adventure with my regular saturday group, indiana jones-esque, nazis and artifacts and all that. they had a blast! just thought id let you know
[19:58] <+TrollLordJason> Excellent!
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[19:58] <+TrollLordJason> There’s plans on the table for more AA, too, so we’re not done with that!
[19:58] <+TrollSteve> That is awesome!
[19:59] <+TheDreadGazebo> sweet, glad to hear
[19:59] <~Dan> (Welcome to #rpgnet, Moriarty777!)
[19:59] <+TrollLordJason> I’m running three new AA adventures at Gen Con this year, all of which will eventually be released for the game
[19:59] <+TheDreadGazebo> tbh, i was a little worried when i saw you guys have a KS for 5E stuff, i was thinking to myself, “oh no, is C&C gunna die?!” glad to hear that its not
[19:59] <+Moriarty777> Wait… is this for a 5th edition book? Damn it! 😉
[19:59] <+TrollSteve> Dread, not by a long shot!
[20:00] <~Dan> Moriarty777: All Trollish topics are on the table. 🙂
[20:00] <+TheDreadGazebo> that soothes my soul, steve, thank you 🙂
[20:00] <+TrollLordJason> Heck, no. That was one reason Steve and I wanted to do this chat
[20:00] <+TrollLordJason> Yeah, we’re just expanding offerings, here. C&C and AA are not going ANYWHERE
[20:00] <+TrollSteve> This is the year for Adventurers Backpack…as soon as I wrap up Aufstrag part 4 and 5. ADB is front and center.
[20:00] <+TheDreadGazebo> i really liked that box you guys were selling at gen con. havent read it fully, but i like the new classes in there
[20:01] <+TheDreadGazebo> especially the magic user
[20:01] <+TrollSteve> AA is going to get a whole lot bigger, we’ll be rolling stuff into it. And what is really cool is Jason and I have some cross over material from AA & CC & AIhrde.
[20:01] <+TheDreadGazebo> awesome!
[20:01] <+Moriarty777> I know… I kid… I kid. But as a Knight, I have to stay true to my game of choice! 😉
[20:01] <+TheDreadGazebo> btw, quick aside, ETA on the players guide for aihrde?
[20:01] <+TheDreadGazebo> i know its in an update somewhere in my email, should probably just look there
[20:01] <+Moriarty777> The PDF was released yesterday so… soon I would think!
[20:01] <+TrollLordJason> Yeah, Steve and I have been talking about the AA/C&C crossover for some time. There’s a hint at it in the Rise of the Red God mini-campaign.
[20:02] <+Moriarty777> PDF looks pretty awesome BTW. Great job Steve.
[20:02] <+TheDreadGazebo> i need to read that then, Jason
[20:02] <+TrollLordBrian> I have been plotting out some other ideas related to future Codices beyond the basic set…
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[20:02] <+TheDreadGazebo> i have so many books, so hard to get to them all!
[20:02] <+Trolllord_Steve> I got booted again, and came back in as the other rme
[20:02] <+TrollLordJason> LOL
[20:03] <~Dan> Well, we all know that trolls regenerate.
[20:03] <+Trolllord_Steve> LOL
[20:03] <+TheDreadGazebo> wheres my flaming tongue…
[20:03] <+TrollLordJason> Hey, now.
[20:03] <+Trolllord_Steve> I suspect its Mort!
[20:04] <+TheDreadGazebo> lol, i kid, i kid
[20:04] <+TrollLordJason> Hey, what you do with your tongue is your business…
[20:04] <+Moriarty777> So… I do have a question about the present kickstarter actually.
[20:04] <+TrollLordJason> Shoot!
[20:05] <+Moriarty777> I’m not a backer (sorry Jason) but I did notice you added the all-in PDF level for C&C (which was cool by the way).
[20:05] <+TrollLordJason> No worries. We’ll change your mind 😉
[20:06] <+Moriarty777> Is there a possibility of adding just the color PDF C&C version as an add-on? This is coming from someone who actually has everything in PDF .. and that includes the FD lizardman models (and soon to have orc ones too).
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[20:06] <+Moriarty777> I do want to give my money… a gesture of support and all… but it seems so damned hard when you have everything!
[20:06] <+Trolllord_Steve> Absolutely. I mean to do that when I put the level in….
[20:06] <+Trolllord_Steve> “meant” to do that
[20:07] <+Trolllord_Steve> You’ve always been a giant support Mort, much appreciated!
[20:08] <+TrollLordJason> Indeed! We’re pretty lucky to have a great fan base.
[20:08] <~Dan> Does the book include new rules for bound demons, elementals,and similar creatures?
[20:08] <+Moriarty777> No worries Steve. You guys make a great product that I like and as a fan, will try support when I can. 🙂
[20:08] <+TrollLordJason> Elementals, yes…after a fashion.
[20:08] <+Moriarty777> Besides, if it wasn’t that, it probably would have been a beer mug as an add-on. 😉
[20:08] <+Trolllord_Steve> We are not worthy! (in my best Wayne’s World voice). I’m still going to make it up your way and come a knockin on your door!
[20:08] <+TheDreadGazebo> ok, just backed it 😀
[20:08] <+TrollLordJason> There are elemental familiars
[20:09] <+TrollLordJason> And I think there will be demons, possibly in the Warlock path
[20:09] <+TrollLordJason> There are some outsiders like imps and such scattered throughout
[20:09] <+TheDreadGazebo> ooo, thats exciting
[20:09] <+Trolllord_Steve> Dan, that would make a great extension. When it funds we have some great ideas for expanding the book…I need to go ahead and put those up there.
[20:09] <+TrollLordJason> Thanks, Dread!
[20:10] <+Moriarty777> How different will it be from some of the material in the Book of Familiars. I assume there is re-jigging because of the class paths and such with 5th edition but are you guys staying fairly close to the Book of Familiars (and the older, OOP d20 version)?
[20:10] <+TrollLordJason> I’m working from the C&C original files, not the d20 ones.
[20:10] <+TrollLordJason> It’s a tough question to answer. In a lot of ways, the classes are going to look VERY different
[20:11] <+TrollLordJason> Take the Bard’s muse, for example
[20:11] <+TrollLordBrian> The Djadadjii/Vampirdzhija class in the Codex Slavorum will be sure to hunt down the Warlocks….
[20:11] <+TrollLordJason> It’s now a new Bardic College: The College of the Muse
[20:11] <+Trolllord_Steve> Brian….nice!
[20:11] <~Dan> Not to be confused with the new Jester College: The College of a Muse.
[20:12] <+TrollLordJason> The language is quite different. Instead of a slew of +2 bonuses, you get advantage
[20:12] <+TrollLordBrian> It is an old Slavic tradition.
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[20:12] <+TrollLordJason> The lists of familiars have been slightly retooled. I saw some things in the C&C version that I thought needed powered down a bit
[20:12] <+Moriarty777> Interesting.
[20:12] <~Dan> (Welcome to #rpgnet, Guest84!)
[20:12] <+TrollLordJason> So some things are less powerful
[20:13] <+TrollLordJason> There are no XP expenditures in 5e
[20:13] <+TrollLordJason> And incidentally, there won’t be in the revised C&C version, either.
[20:13] <+TrollLordBrian> I do plan to flesh out the Celtic bards by the way in the 2nd edition (and final) of the Celtic Codex, as intended, with the centuries of Gaelic and Brythonic material on the Beirdd and Fili that I didn’t get to fit into the book.
[20:13] <+Moriarty777> lol … That sounds wrong somehow. It was converted from C&C to 5th Edition but with the power scaled down. 😉
[20:14] <+TrollLordJason> Well, there were some cases where in the C&C version I could see a 5th level character ending up with a young dragon as a familiar. That seemed a little much to me.
[20:14] <+Moriarty777> So, a planned revised edition is being considered as well?
[20:15] <+TheDreadGazebo> yeah, that does sound a bit OP
[20:15] <+Moriarty777> It’s ok Jason, I understand.
[20:15] <+Trolllord_Steve> For C&C? Yes. I’ve asked Jason to revise it as he moves forward with the 5th Ed version.
[20:15] <+TrollLordJason> A revised edition for C&C is underway
[20:15] <+Moriarty777> Fortunately, I have right of VETO at my gaming table. 😉
[20:15] <+TrollLordJason> Hahahaha, right! But CKs and DMs are two different animals 😉
[20:16] <+TrollLordBrian> The Codex Celtarum will get one, as I had envisioned the book since the earliest days of its design.
[20:16] <+Trolllord_Steve> Mort, that is the only gaming right that counts!
[20:16] <+Moriarty777> Dang… if you did a kickstarter version for both at the same time, it would have hit it’s goals by now!
[20:16] <+TrollLordJason> The design philosophy is somewhat different, though 5e does a great job of putting the power back in the GM’s hands
[20:16] <+TheDreadGazebo> i like the squishing of mods most about 5E
[20:16] <+TheDreadGazebo> most things just give advantage/disadvantage, much easier than 20-some +1
[20:17] <+TheDreadGazebo> +1’s
[20:17] <+Moriarty777> I have a love / hate relationship with 5th edition.
[20:17] <+TrollLordJason> Yeah, that’s one of my favorite mechanics of 5e, the advantage/disadvantage one
[20:17] <+TimBrannan> same here
[20:17] <+Trolllord_Steve> Yeah, I considered that, doing both systems. I chose not to, to see how 5th ed will work of us.
[20:18] <+Moriarty777> On the whole, I like what they did… the advantage/disadvantage … the interesting XP progression.
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[20:18] <+TheDreadGazebo> XP almost feels secondary in 5E
[20:18] <+Moriarty777> But I dislike what I consider power creep which the various paths / class specializations… etc.
[20:18] <~Dan> (Welcome to #rpgnet, TheLastPaladin!)
[20:19] <+TrollLordJason> Interesting observation. I haven’t noticed any undue power creep.
[20:19] <+Moriarty777> I also dislike how some aspects are directly tied to another… as opposed to C&C where things felts more ‘modular’.
[20:20] <+Moriarty777> I’m not sure if that makes sense without examples. To be clear, I’m not crapping of 5E. I think it’s pretty cool and I enjoy playing it.
[20:20] <+TrollLordJason> It does. I’m just chewing on it a bit 😉
[20:21] <~Dan> Can you give some examples of familiars/companions on the high end of the scale?
[20:21] <+TheDreadGazebo> i think from, say, 3.5/4E, 5E feels much more tame and balanced
[20:21] <+TrollLordJason> Well, there’s the aforementioned dragons
[20:22] <+TrollLordJason> 1 sec. Checking my files
[20:23] <+TrollLordJason> Elementals are supreme familiars
[20:23] <+Trolllord_Steve> One of my favorite familiars in the book, or companions, is the Rogue’s shadow.
[20:24] <+TrollLordJason> Dinosaurs are possible
[20:24] <+TrollLordJason> Rocs
[20:24] <+TrollLordJason> Giant poisonous snakes
[20:24] <+TimBrannan> i like the idea of dragons
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[20:24] <~Dan> (Howdy, alanonzander!)
[20:24] <+TheDreadGazebo> could you expound on rogue’s shadow?
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[20:24] <+Trolllord_Steve> It actually increases in power as the rogue does, even to the point that it can attack other undead shadows. The concept is perfect for the class.
[20:24] <~Dan> Yes, I’m curious about that.
[20:24] <+Moriarty777> Hey Steve… If I went for a pledge level that included the Hardcover and PDF, can I select the C&C color version of the PDF to complement my 5E hardcover?
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[20:25] <+Trolllord_Steve> Absolutlely!
[20:25] <+TrollLordJason> So the Rogue’s shadow isn’t per se an undead shadow. It is, literally, the rogue’s own shadow, given magical life and intelligence
[20:25] <+Moriarty777> NOW we’re talking! 😉
[20:25] <+Trolllord_Steve> If it does well enough we’ll offer the C&C version in color.
[20:26] <+TrollLordJason> It then is able to act as an extension of the rogue’s will, enhancing his stealth abilities
[20:26] <~Dan> How would a rogue gain such a thing?
[20:26] <+Trolllord_Steve> I would have to put it at stretch goal of 20K. then we could do both books in full color
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[20:27] <+TimBrannan> how many days are left?
[20:27] <+Moriarty777> 12
[20:27] <+TrollLordJason> By the time the rogue reaches high enough level, she can use her shadow to attack the shadows of other people, dealing them direct damage throguh their own shadows
[20:27] <+TimBrannan> cool
[20:27] <+Trolllord_Steve> Dan, the rogue performs the Shadow Pact, which allows him/her to give life to their shadow. In C&C they have to make a successful attribute check, several of them. Jason has not gotten to the rogue yet in the conversion
[20:27] <+TrollLordJason> Imagine using your own shadow to sneak attack someone else through their shadow
[20:27] <+TrollLordJason> It’ll be a Roguish archetype
[20:28] <+TimBrannan> my son would love that!
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[20:28] <+TimBrannan> i am sold on this book!
[20:28] <+TheLastPaladin> Yup. I need this book now. That’s brilliant
[20:28] <+TrollLordJason> I may tool it as a 5e version of the Shadowdancer
[20:28] <+TrollLordJason> Now wait, it gets better
[20:28] <+TimBrannan> well the C&C version is brilliant
[20:28] <~Dan> Oh, great. Now I have “Me and my Shadow” stuck in my head.
[20:28] <+TimBrannan> so this will be even better
[20:28] <+TrollLordJason> Because there are actually going to be TWO Rogue archetypes
[20:29] <+TrollLordJason> The second is the Reaper
[20:29] <+TrollLordJason> Which in C&C is the Assasin’s familiar.
[20:29] <+TrollLordJason> In 5e it’ll be a Roguish archetype, where you form a bond with a spirit of death
[20:29] <+TimBrannan> yeah…
[20:29] <+TimBrannan> need this book now
[20:30] <+TimBrannan> hey I have a question for all the Trolls
[20:30] <+TimBrannan> I love supporting your books in Kickstarter BUT
[20:30] <+TimBrannan> I also want to support my local game store by buy your stuff there.
[20:30] <+TimBrannan> what is a good compromise?
[20:31] <+TrollLordBrian> Get every other one….?
[20:31] <+Trolllord_Steve> Yeah, that is the challenge. Now, we usually offer a retailer level. If you can get your local store to back it, you can still buy the books from them. We discount that level a good 50% so they still make good money, you get the content. Then for things like the leather and what not, we can put up add ons.
[20:31] <+TimBrannan> that is what I have been doing
[20:31] <+TheLastPaladin> That’s a good question. Have you ever done retailer levels? And if you have, are they popular with Retailers who sell your products?
[20:32] <+Trolllord_Steve> Generally if you want an ad on up there, we don’t have, just ask us, and we’ll put it up.
[20:32] <+TimBrannan> typically i get Brian’s and Jason’s stuff in KS and buy the rest at the store
[20:32] <+Trolllord_Steve> The problem with the retailer levels, is it ties up a retailers money for several months to a year. And that is hard for ALOT of shops.
[20:32] <+Trolllord_Steve> But we try to make it worth their time by giving them stretch reward etc
[20:33] <+TheLastPaladin> Do you ever worry Kickstarter might hurt retailers in the long run?
[20:34] <+TrollLordJason> That was a worry at first, when Kickstarter first started getting big, but I think a balance has been found by now.
[20:34] <+TheLastPaladin> So I have the Corebook, the Aihrde book, and several adventures. What would be the next book you recommend picking up?
[20:34] <+Moriarty777> I think that it as much of a worry / problem now as it is for customers just buying their stuff online and/or direct from the publishers.
[20:34] <+Trolllord_Steve> We do. Its a double edged sword. We always want to be in stores. Even if they don’t sell regularly the presence one is advertising for us.
[20:35] <+Trolllord_Steve> But KS allows us to gauge interest in a project and keep it alive or put it down or retool it (brimstone is being retooled).
[20:35] <+TimBrannan> well my local store really has a nice set up for C&C.
[20:35] <+Moriarty777> Corebook… you mean the three?
[20:35] <+TrollLordJason> Paladin, there’s always Amazing Adventures 😉
[20:35] <+TheLastPaladin> yes.
[20:35] <+TheLastPaladin> A whole new line, nice sell 😉
[20:35] <+TrollLordJason> It’s also highly compatible with AA
[20:36] <+TrollLordJason> Including a new magic system and a psionics system, ready to drop in
[20:36] <+Trolllord_Steve> There is AA, but for C&C you are set…er I mean you need all the other books! 😉
[20:36] <+Moriarty777> If you like monsters… there is the the Classic Monsters book.
[20:36] <+TrollLordJason> er…highly compatible with C&C
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[20:36] <+TheDreadGazebo> yeah, ive found all the content in C&C and AA can basically be used together
[20:36] <+TimBrannan> any chance for an update to Gods & Monsters?
[20:36] <+TimBrannan> love that book
[20:36] <+Moriarty777> Codex books are great
[20:36] <+TheDreadGazebo> yes, this ^
[20:36] <+TheDreadGazebo> gods and monsters, that is
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[20:37] <+Moriarty777> Rune Lore is nifty
[20:37] <~Dan> (Howdy, LW, Lin_Chong!)
[20:37] <+TheLastPaladin> So basically buy all the books, give you all my monies/
[20:37] <+TheLastPaladin> I can get behind that
[20:37] <+Moriarty777> And then Of Gods & Monsters which is OOP or almost OOP.
[20:37] <+Moriarty777> Of Gods & Monsters is imperfect in my mind.
[20:38] <+Moriarty777> But I do like it.
[20:38] <+TrollLordBrian> Thanks, and they will get even grander!
[20:38] <+TimBrannan> actually Monster & Treasure, Monsters of A., and Gods & Monsters all in one book.
[20:38] <+Trolllord_Steve> Mort. There are about a dozen of those left. When it is out of print it is getting a MAJOR overhaul
[20:39] <+Moriarty777> Steve, I would be willing to help out with that.
[20:39] <+Trolllord_Steve> You got it. It just has elements that don’t fit the tone of C&C
[20:40] <~Dan> TrollLordJason, we’ve talked about this a bit, but is it still the case that Amazing Adventures is moving from a pulp game to C&C Modern, of sorts?
[20:40] <+TrollLordJason> I wouldn’t say “moving.”
[20:40] <+Moriarty777> I can see that… I know there were some power concerns too with OG&M.
[20:40] <+TrollLordJason> AA was always intended to be a toolkit game that can cover anything you want to do
[20:41] <+TrollLordJason> But yes, the idea is that we’re going to roll a lot of genre books into AA
[20:41] <+TheLastPaladin> So, question. d20 modern had some pretty serious flaws. How does AA get around that?
[20:41] <+TrollLordJason> Nothing is set in stone yet, though. Steve and I are still discussing the approach for it.
[20:41] <+TimBrannan> more AA books!
[20:42] <+TimBrannan> that is my vote
[20:42] <+TrollLordJason> That’s hard to answer, because I didn’t even look at d20 Modern when I was doing AA. It’s always been its own thing
[20:42] <+Trolllord_Steve> We are considering things like rolling StarSiege into the AA family. So the AA book would be the father of a bunch of setting supplements.
[20:42] <+TrollLordJason> What specific flaws are you talking about? It might be better to go that route.
[20:42] <+TheDreadGazebo> well, d20 Modern takes a vastly different approach to character creation than AA, firstly
[20:43] <+TrollLordJason> It does, very much so
[20:43] <+TheDreadGazebo> d20M has class by stat, whereas AA has proper classes
[20:43] <+TheDreadGazebo> with special abilities, and so forth
[20:43] <+TimBrannan> i prefer AA for that reason
[20:43] <+TrollLordJason> Right. AA is less…generic, in that sense
[20:43] <+TheLastPaladin> Well the leveling system seems to jar for most people when discussing Modern genre games. Systems like Storyteller/Storytelling (from WW/OP) have dice pools and no classes
[20:43] <+TrollLordJason> With AA I tried to create character classes based on big archetypes
[20:43] <+TheLastPaladin> additionally things like HP seem to bother peopel in modern games
[20:43] <+TheDreadGazebo> AA really feels like C&C set in the early 20th century
[20:43] <+TrollLordJason> Ah, the class/level thing
[20:44] <+TheLastPaladin> I bring it up on in the modern context. I’ll be clear, huge fan of C&C, so I have no issue with classes/levels as a mechanic
[20:44] <+TrollLordJason> Right, I got you
[20:44] <+TrollLordJason> So I think it plays out like this
[20:44] <+TrollLordJason> Character advancement in the SIEGE engine, even though it’s class and level technically, feels more organic and incremental like it would if you were using a point build system
[20:45] <+TrollLordJason> Because you don’t suddenly get giant pools of new abilities that you never had before
[20:45] <+TrollLordJason> You MIGHT get one or two new things every couple levels, but they always seem to build on what came before
[20:45] <+TrollLordJason> And you continually get incrementally better. +1 per level better.
[20:45] <+TimBrannan> for AA too I have taken a page from True20 and just leveled as I felt it was best
[20:45] <+TrollLordJason> Does that make sense?
[20:46] <+TheLastPaladin> sure, and I think that’s a great answer
[20:47] <+TrollLordJason> So yeah. I think it kind of comes out of how the SIEGE engine handles class abilities
[20:47] <~Dan> Do you have rules for playing a familiar/companion/etc.?
[20:47] <+TrollLordJason> I’m sure if you think about it you could point out exceptions where it doesn’t bear out…but in general that’s the case.
[20:47] <+TrollLordJason> No, that’s something I haven’t explored. I’m not really sure how fun that would be?
[20:48] <~Dan> Dunno, really… Just a random thought.
[20:48] <+TheDreadGazebo> a dog familiar for the gumshoe?
[20:48] * ~Dan chuckles
[20:48] <+TrollLordJason> Well there is the Animal Handling generic class ability in AA
[20:48] <+TrollLordJason> One of our iconics, Savage Steve McPartland, is a pugilist with a rottweiler companion
[20:49] <+TheLastPaladin> I see a Tarzan or Jungle Book style pulp character benefiting from a familiar subsection at minimum
[20:49] <+TheDreadGazebo> awesome
[20:49] <+Trolllord_Steve> Dan, at the moment, we don’t in this Familiars and Animal Companions, but that would be sweet!
[20:49] <+TrollLordJason> The AA Companion also has the Feral, which is a “Tarzan” style character class
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[20:49] <+TheLastPaladin> whelp, I’m getting sold on AA
[20:50] <+Moriarty777> I loved that dog. 😉
[20:50] <+TimBrannan> AA is fantastic
[20:50] <+Trolllord_Steve> LP, AA is a fantastic game!
[20:50] <+TrollLordJason> Hahahaha, Indiana!
[20:50] <+TrollLordJason> The best thing I can say about AA is this
[20:50] <~Dan> TheLastPaladin: I, too, can vouch for AA. Jason ran it for me at GenCon last year.
[20:50] <+Trolllord_Steve> And because it dovetails so nicely with C&C, jumping back and forth is easy to do.
[20:50] <+TrollLordJason> Usually after I write a game, I’m done with it. You live it for so long that you’re tired of it.
[20:50] <+TrollLordJason> I never get sick of AA
[20:51] <+TrollLordJason> I’ll be running three slots of AA at Gen Con this year
[20:51] <+TrollLordJason> Three different and brand new adventures
[20:51] <+Moriarty777> AA is a solid game. Ironically I have not run it yet.
[20:52] <+TheDreadGazebo> awesome, jason
[20:52] <+Moriarty777> Come to think of it, I’m overdue to kick back into gear with my C&C game.
[20:52] <+Moriarty777> Too much work and not enough gaming damn it.
[20:52] <+TheDreadGazebo> any new AA books in the pipeline?
[20:53] <+Trolllord_Steve> You got that right!
[20:53] <+TimBrannan> as soon as my current D&D5 game is done I am gearing up C&C
[20:53] <+TimBrannan> the Familiar book will be a key part of that
[20:53] <~Dan> Quick note, guys: You’re more than welcome to hang out with us as long as you like, but in what remains of regular time, is there anything we haven’t covered that you’d like to bring up?
[20:53] <+Moriarty777> How the hell do I do a ‘thumbs up’ in chat!
[20:53] <+Trolllord_Steve> Trollzah!
[20:53] <+TrollLordJason> I have tons of ideas for AA books. Steve and I just have to work out how and when to get them on the schedule 😉
[20:54] <+TheDreadGazebo> awesome, glad to hear, looking forward to em
[20:54] <+Moriarty777> Hey Steve… were are we at with the slipcases for the core books?
[20:54] <+Trolllord_Steve> Dan, we’d just like to ask everyone to spread the word for this Kickstarter. Also, this chat has given me the idea to do a spotlight on a character class a day, to help people see the real potential here.
[20:55] <~Dan> Hey, very cool!
[20:55] <+Trolllord_Steve> Mort, I’m arguing with the manufacturer right now. It will ship when we get the Aufstrag books all wrapped up. you’ll have one more big shipment from 3 Sisters
[20:55] <+TrollLordJason> Yeah, that’s it. We’ve got 12 days left. There’s still time, with a big push, to fund and pass a few stretch goals.
[20:55] <+Moriarty777> I have been absent from my blog way too long. I’ll write something on the weekend for the kickstarter.
[20:55] <+Trolllord_Steve> Thanks mort! And I’ll get that add on in there.
[20:55] <+TrollLordJason> So please, back us if you can, and get as many others on board as possible. We need this sucker to go viral!
[20:56] <+Moriarty777> Cool Steve. When it happens, I might see about ordering a second one (one for my regular books and one for my leathers).
[20:56] <+Trolllord_Steve> Trollzah!
[20:56] <~Dan> Well, I’ll do my part by posting the chat log right now. One moment, please… 🙂
[20:56] <+TimBrannan> i still need to order mine.
[20:56] <~Dan> Thanks very much for joining us, guys!
[20:57] <+TrollLordJason> Thanks for having us! A blast, as always!
[20:57] <+Moriarty777> Jason, i might pick your brain or have a couple of questions for you in the next couple of days for that article.
[20:57] <+Trolllord_Steve> Thanks for having us Dan. Always a blast!