<+MichelleL-M> Hey there. I’m Michelle Lyons-McFarland, co-owner of Growling Door Games and developer of our new sourcebook for Chill 3rd Edition, SAVE – The Eternal Society. I’ve been working in the tabletop game industry since 2000, including in-house at WotC and FASA Corp, and I’m currently in grad school finishing my PhD in English Lit and Composition.
<+MichelleL-M> SAVE is the primary monster hunting organization in the world of Chill 3rd Edition. Although it’s been in all three editions of the game in one form or another, it’s never had a sourcebook focused on its history, methods, and organizations, so we set out to fix that.
<~Dan> Thanks, MichelleL-M!
<~Dan> The floor is open to questions!
<~Dan> So how much further does the book go into SAVE history than the core rulebook does?
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<~Dan> (Welcome to #rpgnet, epiphling!)
<+blackhatmatt> While Michelle is formulating an answer, here’s a link to a Kickstarter update that, in turn, has a link to the outline for the book
<+blackhatmatt> (Link: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/playattentiongames/save-the-eternal-society-chill-3rd-edition-sourceb/posts/1387056)https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/playattentiongames/save-the-eternal-society-chill-3rd-edition-sourceb/posts/1387056
<+blackhatmatt> (And I’m gonna go get dog food, but I’ll be back in a sec)
<+MichelleL-M> We’re going to provide a decent amount of detail on historical figures, but the book is far more focused on the present than the past.
<+MichelleL-M> We’ve got about 20k devoted to historical artifacts, like you can see in our most recent update. It’ll provide some nice jumping-off points for historical cases, but it won’t get in the way of the present-day material.
<+JamesGillen> I seem to be new, but when did 3rd Edition come out and what’s different about it?
<+MichelleL-M> Chill 3rd came out this past summer — We funded the Kickstarter for it last year and delivered with the print run right about GenCon, and the PDF some months before that.
<+MichelleL-M> It uses a percentile system and is based on the 2nd Ed material, but it’s been made over and streamlined to be a bit more reflective of modern games.
<~Dan> Trust me: It’s very cool.
<+JamesGillen> Seems so
<+MichelleL-M> If you’re familiar with the old version, it’ll play similar to how you remember it, as far as the play experience goes, but without a lot of the subsystems that hung about.
<+ChillChick> I particularly like the light side/dark side chips.
<+MichelleL-M> I was going to say, one of our biggest innovations with it is the tokens, which flip back and forth from light to dark depending on the activity of the Unknown and the choices of the players.
<+MichelleL-M> It really carries a lot of visual impact in the game to rachet up the tension — it’s one of my favorite features.
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<~Dan> The core book goes into quite a bit of detail on SAVE organization. What else do you add?
<~Dan> Welcome to #rpgnet, Spooky1!
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<~Dan> Welcome to #rpgnet, Martin!
<+Martin> Thank you.
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<+Martin> Hi Michell. I am Martin Caron.
<+MichelleL-M> Well, for starters, we talk about the different organizational methods SAVE uses — how cells are set up, how information gets passed around, how recruitment is done. There’s a good amount on what life is like as an envoy, including dealing with disability — Unknown monsters can get a bit traumatic, after all.
<+MichelleL-M> Hey Martin. Nice to see you. 🙂
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<+MichelleL-M> We include a section on creating your own HQ, a number of cases to run, and there’s going to be some more monsters, of course.
<~Dan> (Howdy, JohnK!)
<+JohnK> Howdy, Dan! Hey, Michelle! 🙂
<+Nightstalker> Does Save use animals such as dogs in their struggle against the unknown or are such animals too easy to be controlled by the unknown or to unpredictable for field use?
<+MichelleL-M> Martin, by the way, is the owner of the Chill IP and our license holder, and he’s been really supportive the whole way through.
<+JohnK> I know I’ve come a bit late to the discussion on the new book, but I’ve got a couple of questions about the SAVE Sourcebook.
<+JohnK> I know the sourcebook will have additional material on creating your own HQ, but will this merely expand what’s in the main rulebook or will it offer new options and the like?
<+MichelleL-M> My take on animals is that, much like real world work, animals can be trained to be effective in some situations. The Unknown is nothing if not varied, and I wouldn’t say it’s a one-size-fits-all approach.
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<+MichelleL-M> There was an edge in 2nd ed called “Pet” that we looked at including, but we couldn’t find a good way to make the mechanics work. That’s not to say something similar might not show up in the future, though. (done)
<~Dan> Really? There’s an edge that gives you a pet in 3rd ed. — one of my players took it.
<~Dan> Unless I’m high or something. 🙂
<+blackhatmatt> You’re not high, Dan, I am
<+ChillChick> I always encouraged my players to have their characters have pets – or, as I think of them, snack food. (bwahahaha)
<+blackhatmatt> I was thinking of a different Edge entirely
* ~Dan chuckles
<+blackhatmatt> And I told Michelle wrong because I was like “oh, I don’t have to look that up”
<+blackhatmatt> : is abased
<+MichelleL-M> As far as the HQ section is concerned, the guy who’s working on that (Jonathan McFarland) did a lot of mechanics work in the core book, but his draft isn’t quite in yet. We should have an excerpt from next week, though. (done)
<+JohnK> Nah, if there had been a Pet Edge in 3rd Edition, one of my players would have *jumped* at the chance to take it!
<+MichelleL-M> Matt’s a butt.
<~Dan> I was surprised to learn that the SAVE book would include monsters. Glad, but surprised. Can you say a bit about their inclusion?
<+blackhatmatt> FINE I’M A BUTT
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<~Dan> (JohnK: Page 70, column 1. 🙂 )
<~Dan> (Welcome to #rpgnet, TylerFoss!)
<+Martin> How many creatures will be included in the new book?
<+JohnK> I’m hoping some of the monsters for the SAVE book will be the ones that were mentioned in the rulebook, but weren’t there due to space considerations and the like.
<+MichelleL-M> So there were monsters left over that didn’t fit in the core book that we want to include, and there are also some new monsters we want to put in because they’re geared toward infiltration, making them perfect to undermine all the organizational work that envoys do. (done)
<+MichelleL-M> I’m not entirely sure how many we’ll be putting in — it depends on word count. I’ll know more in a week or so. (done)
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<+MichelleL-M> Monsters are like songs on your iPhone — you can just fill up the space you have left. 🙂
<~Dan> Will the book feature any new Art powers?
<+Martin> How many new edges and drawbacks?
<+MichelleL-M> No, because we’re going to be doing on the Art — working title is Mortal Practitioners. We’re saving a lot of the Art nitty-gritty for that book. (done)
<+JohnK> We need to see the Spectral Hound, Black Tamanous, Manitou, and what about the Wendigo for us Canadian gamers to use? 🙂
<+JohnK> Ooh, I like that title for the book on the Art.
<+MichelleL-M> That draft (edges and drawbacks) isn’t in yet, so I can’t say for sure. Sorry. (done)
<+blackhatmatt> You’ll see the Black Tamanous at some point, whether it’s in this book or the next one or a case. It’s one of my favorite creatures, and I ran a case involving it in a 2nd Ed game a long time ago that I’d like to write out
<+JohnK> Eeep, Dan, you’re right! It is in there. 🙂
<~Dan> What is a Black Tamanous? 🙂
<+JohnK> Yeah, Michelle, I’m a fan of Black Tamanous as well. Love that beastie! 🙂
<+MichelleL-M> A Black Tanamous is a creature that can only feed on human cannibals.
<+JohnK> Ooh, that’s a case I’d like to see, Michelle. 🙂
<+blackhatmatt> (It also showed up in my Monsterhearts game. I’m a fan.)
<+MichelleL-M> This restricts its available prey, unless it arranges to make more cannibals.
<~Dan> Heh. Cool.
<~Dan> I thought the Wendigo did that, too.
<+MichelleL-M> It leaves black tarry footprints. Very creepy.
<+Martin> It’s the creature in “Undead & Buried” Mayfair scenario.
<+Martin> Sorry, spoiler!
<+MichelleL-M> Wendigo are also associated with cannibalism, so tomato, tomahto.
<+ChillChick> I built a whole campaign around the Wendigo in 2nd edition. Cannibalism is one of those things that will creep out almost everyone.
<~Dan> Eh. It’s a matter of taste.
<+JohnK> Are there any plans in the SAVE sourcebook to have an extended bit to the timeline? Say with some of the historic cases that have gone down in the past (or in the current, modern era)?
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<+MichelleL-M> Honestly, I’m not sure yet. There’s definitely going to be additional data points we could add to it, but timelines are space hogs insofar as page count goes, so it may not be the most efficient way to do it.
<~Dan> Do all three forms of SAVE organizations get equal time in the sourcebook?
<+JohnK> Yeah, that’s why I brought it up. I guess it’ll depend on how much space is left in the book when the main sections are finished up, yes?
<+JohnK> Btw, Black Tamanous is associated with Pacific Coast Indians, Wendigo is an Algonquin native legend.
<+MichelleL-M> Yes, all three forms of SAVE get equal space: Traditional, Cell, and Lost HQs. The authors for those sections have really been working together well, and I’m looking forward to seeing the final work. (done)
<+MichelleL-M> JohnK: Pretty much. We’ll be working closely with Thomas Deeny, who’ll be doing layout again for us on the SAVE book.
<+JohnK> Ooh, nice! Thomas’s work on the main rulebook was really very good. 🙂
<+MichelleL-M> I agree. He’s a wizard.
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<~Dan> (Welcome to #rpgnet, Guest30!)
<+Nightstalker> And chance in a later source book to have rules for playing non-save people encountering the unknown, could be used as pre-game to foreshadow what the SAVE members are going up against. Or just to play the victims from time to time.
<+JohnK> One of the things I hope we’ll also see in the book, Michelle, is some guidelines for running SAVE with all three types of the organisation, and the kind of resources/help that player envoys can get.
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<~Dan> Does the SAVE book include an adventure?
<+MichelleL-M> One of the unlockable cases is planned to be for new envoys or unaffiliated non-SAVE people, but that assumes we get to Rob Bohl’s case with the Kickstarter. 🙂 (done)
<+MichelleL-M> We need 183 more — just saying. 🙂
<+ChillChick> I get paid tomorrow… might end up raising my pledge. You guys are murder on my budget.
<+MichelleL-M> The SAVE book is going to include four adventures (or cases), plus we’ve unlocked three free ones that’ll be going up on the website for download. (done)
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<~Dan> Does the book cover the defenses used in SAVE headquarters? I can’t figure out how SAVE can survive a direct assault by mulitple sorts of monsters.
<+MichelleL-M> But we’re super grateful. 🙂
<~Dan> Cool!, re: cases.
<+JohnK> Last time that happened, Dan, SAVE didn’t survive (too well, anyway).
<+MichelleL-M> On the occasions that SAVE offices have been attacked directly by the Unknown, they haven’t survived.
<+ChillChick> Fortunately evil things don’t work together well….
<+JohnK> I still want to know what really happened in Charleston… 🙂
<+MichelleL-M> Really, it’s being spread out that helps, plus the fact that the Unknown doesn’t seem to be terrifically organized itself. But that’s one of the reason the cell structure’s been adopted so thoroughly throughout the organization.
<+JohnK> MichelleL-M: How much resistance to the cell structure exists out there?
<+MichelleL-M> The best defense is a good offense… that and learning to spot a tail, I suppose.
<~Dan> Perhaps literally, for some creatures!
<~Dan> (re: tail)
<~Dan> How is the book organized?
<+MichelleL-M> It depends on where you are. Europe is still very traditionalist. North America is kind of a mixed bag, depending on where you are and the population density.
<+MichelleL-M> Africa has adopted cells almost entirely.
<+JohnK> I had figured that population density figured into this somehow, but wasn’t sure. Are there any patterns to North America that are worth noting?
<+MichelleL-M> The book starts off with historical artifacts — case files, etc. Although, if we make a stretch goal, we’ll have Len O’Grady do another comic for us at the beginning. Chapter One starts us out with SAVE Today, which gets into the different types of organizations and how they work.
<+MichelleL-M> Chapter Two deals with envoys — what sort of people join, how does that work with real life, how does recruitment work, what are the consequences of that choice.
<~Dan> Yes, I’m rather curious about that.
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<~Dan> (Howdy, Plastik!
<+FaerieGodfather> Just watched a documentary about HEMA on bullshido. Really fascinating stuff.
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<+MichelleL-M> Chapter Three is for the Chill Master — HQ Creation, how to use SAVE as a resource for players, and the gorilla in the room, infiltration by the Unknown.
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<~Dan> (Welcome to #rpgnet, Calypso!)
<+Calypso> Thank you @Dan
<+JohnK> Ooh, nice!! I had wondered about the infiltration aspect of matters. Heck, I’m still suspicious about one of the early events in SAVE history.
<+MichelleL-M> Chapter Four is cases (the aforementioned four planned), and Chapter Five is creatures. Then there’ll be an appendix with more pregen characters.
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<~Dan> (Howdy, Lin_Chong!)
<+JohnK> Btw, Michelle, this time around let’s get the game stats for the pregen characters numerically right, please? 🙂
<+epiphling> Will any of the pregen characters follow the guidelines for the differently-abled you posted as an update snippet?
<+epiphling> (Which was really well done, by the way. Kudos to Eddy.)
<+MichelleL-M> Patterns in North America — the biggest pattern is that the traditionalists are strongest in the Northeast US and major urban areas, while cells are more popular in rural areas and the West. That said, there’s far less oversight in the US on individual offices, so they can really adopt the structure they prefer without much in the way of consequences.
<~Dan> Do the four cases have any presumptions regarding the organizations of SAVE involved?
<+MichelleL-M> Yeah, we’ll be continuing to use those guidelines. One of them in particular is a polio survivor and uses braces or a wheelchair, depending.
<+blackhatmatt> (By the way, there’s one more SAVE Recruiter pledge level left, which would allow a backer to create a pre-gen to include)
<+JohnK> That’s actually neat, Michelle, and what I hoped for pattern-wise. I’m not surprised by cells being popular in rural areas, given the number of envoys likely found there. I’m also assuming that there’s a lot of empty spaces on the SAVE map in NA, with lots of room for SAVE offices and chapters here and there.
<+MichelleL-M> By and large we’re trying to avoid forcing a choice on anyone for their HQ. We’re still getting those drafts in, so I can’t nail down a lot of specifics. I can tell you that one of them is a historical case set in the 1930s, though, which makes it a traditionalist office by default. (done)
<+MichelleL-M> There are still a number of Lost Offices out there, so there’s a great deal of room, yes.
<~Dan> (btw, you don’t have you give us a (done) after every statement unless you just want to, MichelleL-M. They’re mainly for extended responses and question pauses. 🙂 )
<+MichelleL-M> Ah. Okay. 🙂
<~Dan> (Kidding, kidding!)
<+MichelleL-M> Yes, thank you.
<+JohnK> Ooh, like the idea of the historical case set in the 1930s. I’m working on a scenario for local gaming convention set around 1850. Presenting a few challenges, let me tell you. 🙂
<+JohnK> Lost Offices have a lot of potential, so I’m looking forward to seeing what’s in the SAVE sourcebook on that aspect of the game.
<+blackhatmatt> It says to do that in the guidelines, DAN.
<~Dan> I love the shout-out to Supernatural in the corebook, btw. 🙂
* ~Dan chuckles
<+MichelleL-M> Well, it does sort of lend itself to that sort of story.
<~Dan> Does the SAVE book address the degree to which members of traditional chapters can call in backup?
<+ChillChick> An aside – my players kept searching my place for hidden cameras and recording devices. Especially in the early seasons of Supernatural, I’d do a story hook and then Supernatural would do it a month later.
<+JohnK> Will one of the four scenarios in the SAVE sourcebook have anything to do with finding a Lost Office, or dealing with one (one way or the other)?
<~Dan> ChillChick: Heh. 🙂
<+MichelleL-M> Yes, it should. There will be tools to model it mechanically, but it largely ends up being a player decision, in that a group might make an HQ with a traditional structure but not a lot of resources.
<+MichelleL-M> We don’t specifically have anything planned for a Lost Office case for the book, but we’ve still got cases to unlock, all based on images and captions from the #SAVEisonyourside tag.
<+MichelleL-M> So it’s not too late to put something up and see if it gets chosen. 🙂
<+MichelleL-M> (done) HAH.
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<~Dan> Can you say a bit about how SAVE recruits? I couldn’t really grasp that based on the core rulebook.
<+MichelleL-M> SAVE recruits the same way that hedgehogs snuggle — carefully.
* ~Dan chuckles
<+MichelleL-M> The job of being an envoy has a significant cost attached to it, not to mention the ever present risk that by publicizing the Unknown, you’re drawing attention to it.
<+MichelleL-M> SAVE envoys, then, typically come from those whose lives have been touched by the Unknown, whether they survived an encounter or were close to someone else who did (or perhaps didn’t), or who were born to a family that included an envoy and they found out about it.
<+MichelleL-M> More specifically, it’s the people in those situations who learn about the Unknown and are motivated to do something about it rather than letting it go and getting back to their lives.
<+Nightstalker> How about an adventure that involves a Chuck-E Cheese like place that has the animatronics coming to life killing people 😉
<+MichelleL-M> About the only area in which SAVE actively recruits, at least under the traditional model, would be if someone shows facility for the Art — but then, if you’re already using the Art, the Unknown has probably already picked you out as well.
<+blackhatmatt> I worked at Chuck E. Cheese for all of a month. You’re not just whistling Dixie
<+JamesGillen> It’s like Westworld only with Carebears
<+MichelleL-M> I don’t think we’ll be publishing a case based on Five Nights at Freddy’s, but don’t let that stop you from running one. 🙂
<~Dan> How “supplementary” is this supplement?
<~Dan> Is there anything about it that you’d consider vital to play Chill 3e?
<+MichelleL-M> You don’t need it to run the game. I think if you’re looking at running a long-term SAVE campaign, then it’s a very useful book to have. Even if you just want more cases and monsters, it’s a useful book to have.
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<+MichelleL-M> But then, there’s very little point in publishing a supplement that isn’t actively useful. Supplements are hard enough to move in the market as it is. 🙂
<~Dan> True enough. 🙂
<+MichelleL-M> The Chill IP has a long and illustrious line of surprisingly rich supplementary material, and we really want to continue in that fashion.
<+Nightstalker> So no Chill book on the art of Disco dancing? 😦
<+MichelleL-M> Nope. No tax codes either.
<~Dan> Can you say a bit about your future plans for Chill?
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<+MichelleL-M> So, we have the license through 2017, and our goals are to do three more supplements after this one. At that time, we’ll have to renegotiate the contract, assuming Martin is open to the possibility.
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<+ChillChick> Any thoughts about a shared world/organized play campaign?
<+MichelleL-M> Once it ends, all product reverts back to Martin, who as the IP owner will likely continue to sell it.
<+MichelleL-M> We’re really fond of Chill, and we’re both attached to the property and enjoy working on it, but that’s about the most definite statement I can make about the far-flung future. 🙂
<~Dan> (Howdy, open_sketch, Janus!)
<+open_sketch> hi dan!
<+MichelleL-M> Shared world/organized play really falls outside the purview of our arrangement. Given that we’re a small company, we don’t have the staff to run anything like that at this time. Organized play is a fantastic way to grow a community, however, and I’m greatly in favor of those programs.
<~Dan> Well, can you say what’s after Mortal Practitioners? 🙂
<+ChillChick> Martin, is this something upi
<+ChillChick> f (oops)
<+ChillChick> you’d be open to (or should I talk to you offsides)
<+Martin> Chill is my baby and Michelle and Matt are good godparent.
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<~Dan> (Welcome to #rpgnet, NotMorgan!)
<+ChillChick> My question is slightly selfish – i’m an Organized Play kind of gal, and have run licensed campaigns before (Star Wars, Blackmoor).
<+ChillChick> (and know Matt & Michelle fairly well)
<+MichelleL-M> Actually I don’t think Mortal Practitioners is the next book. The working title of the next book is Fearsome Beasts, and then we’ve got a book planned for the undead as well.
<+ChillChick> ((ooooo – very excited about undread!))
<+MichelleL-M> Jae, why don’t you talk to us offline about that. 🙂
<+ChillChick> Happy to, Michelle.
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<+MichelleL-M> Thank you, Martin. 🙂
<~Dan> So Fearsome Beasts will cover every sort of creature that isn’t undead? 🙂
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<~Dan> (Welcome to #rpgnet, Guest40!)
<+MichelleL-M> I’m going to let Matt field this one, as that book is kind of his baby.
<+blackhatmatt> Fearsome Beasts!
<+blackhatmatt> So, in Chill 3rd Ed, we talked a little bit about how SAVE classifies creatures of the Unknown
<+blackhatmatt> One of their classifications is “monster,” that is, “well, it’s got a physical body, it’s not undead, it isn’t a lycanthrope, and it seems to be vulnerable to physical harm”
<+JamesGillen> for example, a human.
<+blackhatmatt> Creatures from previous Chill books that might fit this category include the hodag, the noo-qua, the bogey, the sasquatch, and the corbie
<+blackhatmatt> We’ll be addressing human antagonists in the Mortal Practitioners book, actually
<~Dan> I love the hodag. 🙂
<+blackhatmatt> So the plan is for Fearsome Beasts to be a monster book in the style of books like Apparitions, Lycanthropes, and Vampires; some in-character stuff about SAVE and how it classifies these things, a bunch of monsters, and some cases
<+blackhatmatt> I’ve blocked off some time this spring to write the book, and I’m really looking forward to it
<+blackhatmatt> Michelle will be right back, but I’ll answer questions until she is
<~Dan> The setting fiction in the corebook talks about lake monsters. Will they be in Fearsome Beasts?
<+blackhatmatt> I suspect there will be at least some discussion of aquatic monsters, yes.
<+MichelleL-M> I’m back, but Matt’s got the FB questions.
<+blackhatmatt> Logistically, though, it’s hard to chase a monster into a big body of water
<+blackhatmatt> If you don’t want to drown, that is
<~Dan> You knew the job was dangerous when you took it.
<+blackhatmatt> The Noo-Qua was one of the few 2nd Ed monsters I never used in my games
<~Dan> What is that?
<+blackhatmatt> Lightning Snake. Big-ass lake serpent kind of thing
<+blackhatmatt> Can also change into a normal fish, which means it’s hard to fight if it doesn’t want to be fought
<~Dan> That does sound problematic.
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<+blackhatmatt> OK, I’m tagging out
<~Dan> So while you guys are more than welcome to hang out with us as long as you like — and whenever you like, come to that — is there anything we haven’t covered that you’d like to bring up in what’s left of “regular time”?
<+MichelleL-M> Not that I can think of — this has been a pretty rich SAVE tapestry, all things considered. 🙂 Back the Kickstarter! 🙂
<+MichelleL-M> I must be tired, my smiley use is starting to get away from me.
<~Dan> Alrighty then! Thanks very much for joining us this evening, guys!
<~Dan> Give me just a moment, and I’ll post the log and get you the link.
<~Dan> On a related note, those interested in supporting my Q&A efforts will find a virtual “tip jar” link on my blog. 😉
<+MichelleL-M> Awesome. Thank you for having us, Dan. 🙂
<+blackhatmatt> Here’s the KS link again! https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/playattentiongames/save-the-eternal-society-chill-3rd-edition-sourceb